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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 16  

post #151 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

The amd builds are great for budget setups. The 6/8 cores can smoke the comparable priced intels sub $200. Thats where it stops though. The 9 series doesnt make sense to me. I can see a pure enthusiasts buying those 9series but thats about it.



I really enjoyed the 6core fx chips I had. They overclocked like mad. Its just hard to stay true to amd when they leave much to be desired compared to intels after the $200 mark.

Even if 8core can beat 4670k and even 4770k at a few things. It does so with trade offs.

9000 stuff is for benchers, or that's my guess.

But man 8300's are fun, I'm just screwing around today;

http://valid.canardpc.com/71y4pv

And this may even turn out to be stable, I'm still in the process of tuning and testing. rolleyes.gif
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post #152 of 1593
The FX might not be so big in FPU performance, but it still keeps up with higher Intel CPUs.





This guy swapped an i7 3770k for an FX-6300, and he only reports moderate slowdowns. Now that's something.
    
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post #153 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I don't doubt it in the least that others feel differently and I respect that as others should respect my viewpoint.

Your viewpoint/opinion doesn't enter into the realm of quantifiable measurements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Well some people are trying to say that AMD isn't viable, I really can't think of a situation where it isn't viable. I posted scores proving stock Vishera's to be faster than a stock 3770k. Fair minded people wouldn't have a problem accepting that , people that think otherwise always seem to reveal themselves.

None of this has anything to do with anything I mentioned.

I never stated AMD CPUs could not be viable. I never expressed skepticism at the idea that an FX-9590 could edge out a 3770k in Cinebench.

You say your FX feels faster than your Intel setup...then you produce Cinebench scores? Do you primarily notice the difference in Cinebench or Cinema4D? If not, then that is a straw-man to end all straw-men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

If it's true that there is nothing that can't be measured, you should have no problems proving your side of the discussion, good luck smile.gif

It's blatantly self-evident that "faster" relates to time and that time can be measured.

Why don't you state exactly what feels different, and I'll tell you how to actually measure the difference. Then we can see if there is any basis behind your feeling.
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post #154 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

wait, how much is the 9590 again? Which performs on par with 4770k? And oh, have fun with your outdated amd chipset, you can't even find a good mitx mobos.
Who in the heck would want to assemble an M-ITX system based on an FX-9590? The 9590 is intended only for full-size desktops with high-performance cooling, and AMD markets it that way. You're making a straw-man argument.

If you want to do a SFF system based on AMD hardware, you use one of their APU's. Which, incidentally, have much newer chipsets than the 970/990 series that FX processors run on.
     
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post #155 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I don't buy it, if we are talking about CPU performance/watt.

If you are including the IGPs, then perhaps this could be
Nah I meant that it does win versus dgpu + cpu in efficiency by far.

But if it scales as well as it did from 4 to 3 then we would see a a very efficient proc if you then remove the gpu sillicon you would end up with 95-45-22 the power roughly cut in half per GHz due to the great scaling per voltage except on high tdp on you get rid of the gpu you get like 10/15W for a 2.0GHz 2 module steamroller part.

All hypothetical untill mobile kaveri is here.
post #156 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

The amd builds are great for budget setups. The 6/8 cores can smoke the comparable priced intels sub $200. Thats where it stops though. The 9 series doesnt make sense to me. I can see a pure enthusiasts buying those 9series but thats about it.



I really enjoyed the 6core fx chips I had. They overclocked like mad. Its just hard to stay true to amd when they leave much to be desired compared to intels after the $200 mark.

Even if 8core can beat 4670k and even 4770k at a few things. It does so with trade offs.

9000 stuff is for benchers, or that's my guess.

But man 8300's are fun, I'm just screwing around today;

http://valid.canardpc.com/71y4pv

And this may even turn out to be stable, I'm still in the process of tuning and testing. rolleyes.gif

Agree with what KyadCK said.
The 8XXX's are fun chips that are darn near bullet proof. From my experience the 9XXX are only practical for daily use in the sense that you can undervolt them and still be stable at clockspeeds above where the voltage wall typically is for the 8XXX's. My 9370 is prime 95 stable at @ 5ghz on stock voltage - considerably lower than what my 8XXX's need . Operating the 9XXX's beyond it's "voltage wall"( (in the neighborhood of 5.2ghz) for daily use is only for those who have good custom water cooling, good case airflow and a good supporting cast -psu /motherboard.
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post #157 of 1593
Also, about the FX's "poor" FPU performance, if it would be somehow possible or AMD to make a new chipset, or even software, to direct the OS to schedule FPU operation to the GPU (if it's a Radeon), that would make the setup have far better FPU performance than even an i7.
    
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post #158 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2advanced View Post

http://www.g4tv.com/games/top-100-pc-games/

Looking at this list above, WOW ranks 10th and Star Craft ranks 12th. The top 5 titles are;

-Need for Speed Most wanted

-Star Wars: The Old Republic

-Defiance

-Call of Duty Black OPS 2

-and Diablo 3

All newer titles (2011-2013). IIRC, AMD CPUS handle all these games well.

But the point remains; even in situations where people have come in here asking for advice on a gaming rig, (even Gaming Evolved Titles) you're usually in there kicking, screaming, and hollering "INTEL." Usually without taking into consideration the more significant part of any gaming rig..... THE GPU!
I wouldn't expect someone who desperately clings and resorts to hand picked benchmarks, as the end-all be-all, to be open minded and/or rational. But don't you think it means something when you have many-a-members here telling you that Intel is simply NOT worth the extra cash in most cases (myself included)? Why do you chose to make a conscious decision to not place any value in the Users experience? Is it an ego thing? There is a "real-world experience" value to damn near everything from cars to smartphones. I don't see why it is so difficult to comprehend.

Using your rationale, Porsche and Apple should have seized to exist a long time ago, and frankly, have no place in society because, on paper, they just dont have anything to offer over the competition.
Ehhh, how 'bout yes. Some of these even put your own results to shame, and all on a measly $130 motherboard.

http://hwbot.org/submission/2329725_hicookie_cpu_frequency_fx_8350_8470.74_mhz

http://hwbot.org/submission/2463122_i.nfrar.ed_cpu_frequency_fx_9370_8189.81_mhz

http://hwbot.org/submission/2430117_remnant_cpu_frequency_fx_8350_7504.13_mhz

http://hwbot.org/submission/2466519_dacosa_superpi___1m_fx_9370_14sec_500ms

http://hwbot.org/submission/2265196_gnidaol_superpi___1m_fx_8150_14sec_835ms



http://hwbot.org/submission/2426675_zorchthatcpu_superpi___1m_fx_8150_14sec_578ms



http://hwbot.org/submission/2313094_ivanov_cpu_frequency_fx_8120_6809.96_mhz




Yes, not the board of choice I know. But IT CAN be done.
Actually..... YES..... Just yes.

Want to know what cooler is absolute garbage? The CM 212+ Evo. I bought into the hype surrounding that crappy cooler and I couldn't be more disappointed. That is how I came across this cooler. After giving the 212 away, I came across the Zalman during christmas time. It was $10 after MIR from TD. It easily out-performed the EVO, and much to my surprise, ran 36 minutes of Prime 95 Blend without breaking 51 degrees on my test bench. (8320 @ 4.8Ghz, 1.464V Load) I think I still have the video I recorded to show a friend. I can show it to you if you'd like. For $30 + some PK-1 TIM, it just cant be beat.

Ill try IBT when I get a chance and post results.

So what about the % in performance gains? The AMD FX9590 starts out at 4,7..
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post #159 of 1593
FX Steamroller needs to happen. 'Nuff said.
post #160 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I don't doubt it in the least that others feel differently and I respect that as others should respect my viewpoint.

Your viewpoint/opinion doesn't enter into the realm of quantifiable measurements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Well some people are trying to say that AMD isn't viable, I really can't think of a situation where it isn't viable. I posted scores proving stock Vishera's to be faster than a stock 3770k. Fair minded people wouldn't have a problem accepting that , people that think otherwise always seem to reveal themselves.

None of this has anything to do with anything I mentioned.

I never stated AMD CPUs could not be viable. I never expressed skepticism at the idea that an FX-9590 could edge out a 3770k in Cinebench.

You say your FX feels faster than your Intel setup...then you produce Cinebench scores? Do you primarily notice the difference in Cinebench or Cinema4D? If not, then that is a straw-man to end all straw-men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

If it's true that there is nothing that can't be measured, you should have no problems proving your side of the discussion, good luck smile.gif

It's blatantly self-evident that "faster" relates to time and that time can be measured.

Why don't you state exactly what feels different, and I'll tell you how to actually measure the difference. Then we can see if there is any basis behind your feeling.

The cinebench score was to prove that the AMD could indeed be faster than the 3770k in a measurable way, proving that there are situations where the AMD is not only "viable" even being superior in this instance.

If you require benchmarks to support a discussion - that should lend itself pretty well to supporting my viewpoint in the eyes of people who value numbers.
Daily use is much different than benchmarking where the machine is free to concentrate its efforts on a single application to the exclusion of all others. These days there is a heck of a bunch of stuff running simultaneously, single thread performance is still important, but much less so for day to day operation. Benchmarking is a very esoteric endeavor. I spend much more time at it than the average user, and it's still a very small portion of the time I spend with my machines. I think you have to recognize that by it's nature a benchmark reflects such a narrow portion of a machine's capabilities that it doesn't represent daily use capability very well at all.

The truth is, there isn't a unbiased, foolproof , easy way to measure the differences I see between my Intels and AMD's during daily use that would exclude all outside factors. I wish there were, I truly feel it would support my contention. In the end there is no more burden of proof on my side of the discussion than there is on yours.

A few months back I had a brand new 4770 ( non k) equipped pre-built on my desk at the same time I was re-formatting my mother's malware collection unit that has a 7850 X 2 in it. For browsing , opening and closing programs etc. the ancient 7850 handicapped by 800mhz ddr2 was quicker than the new prebuilt ( rhymes with "smell") machine. I am at a loss to explain that one, could be the bloatware , antivirus etc. or the "flavor of the month" HDD the prebuilt had vs the WD caviar black in old Ma Deuce, but it was maddening. Obviously if comparing it during workloads, it would have been no contest. It was the most extreme manifestation of this phenomenon I've experienced to date.

I have the 3770k, sitting to the left of me , the 8350 to the right. I'm using the 8350, like I do most of the time. If I had to give one up, there would be no hesitation , it would be the 3770k.

EDIT : in reply to the Green highlighted text, If you accept benchmarks as being valid to prove the machine can indeed feel faster in daily use that should do it. If your contention is benchmarks do not then that supports my viewpoint to an even greater degree - doesn't it?
Edited by cssorkinman - 3/3/14 at 9:11am
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Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
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Ryzen Shine!
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1800X @ 4125mhz 1.432 Volts MSI X370 Titanium   Fury  G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
  hide details  
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Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end?