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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 155  

post #1541 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

not always, remember this graph:


That isn't a FX in spot number one.

Flip me those 6 cores eat a lot. I must of missed that graph.

To be fair what in the world is going to touch that 3960X at 4.8Ghz.

Even if you leave it at stock it still performs superb. Although Intel's 6 core probably eats a hell of a lot more once overclocked than AMD's full fat Phenoms tongue.gif which is quite impressive really, especially since Phenom was at 45nm.

So kind of thumbs up for AMD there, you could say AMD's parts consume less in a way.
post #1542 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I have no idea how much it costs in the USA but it should be around the 100$ mark (since it hovers around 90 euros over here). It is pretty ok with good airflow, not stellar but I have had rock solid 4.6Ghz with it, there's a guy in the vishera owners thread that hit 5Ghz with its predecessor ,the M5A97 evo first rev. You were probably thinking of M5A99 famly (150$ mark etc.).

http://www.amazon.com/Asus-M5A97-EVO-R2-0-Mainboard/dp/B008RPZ5H8

That's around 140$ there. Also, the vrm on the thing will do throttle the processor (yeah it can't really keep up). At least the asus boards usually have proper protection and don't go bang. But with the ud3r much cheaper there's no reason to get the asus. This is true even when the price is the same because of the vrm on the gigabyte being stronger.

The cooler mention was just cause it won't limit the CPU potential (it's locked tongue.gif) so no extra cost to go higher.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You know what isn't superficial? Every ASRock board I've ever owned bends when I plug in the sata cables. That's just pathetic, and very much low quality. (To be fair, the boards were mid-range at best)

Most asrock boards are crap by design, with just a few exceptions (rumors say that intel series 8 boards are ok but honestly, I would never want to risk it). This is not just about the hardware used being of low quality. Some of their boards that have dual sided vrm fets keep the bottom part without a heatsink. Sometimes they also put chokes on the bottom of the board. Never mind all that, they deliberately mess with the voltage readings to make some of their boards seem like they overclock with low voltages (readings on some of their boards show like 1.35v cpu voltage, while it actually is close to 1.6, scary stuff). It's sickening.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

not always, remember this graph:


That isn't a FX in spot number one.

Now this is part of the posts I'm talking about. Completely out of place. Completely unrelated. Completely nonsensical. Still, I'll play:



^From the same site. With the hexa-core intel being released on the same year as the FX at 5GHz.
post #1543 of 1593
~35% more power consumption for a part that's over 50% faster. Seems reasonable. Especially since the intel part is from 2011.

That said SB-E =/= Haswell i5. Kyad PsyM4n and Blameless were talking about the 100W claim for Haswell i5 with around a 20% OC on it.
 
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post #1544 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post



That's around 140$ there. Also, the vrm on the thing will do throttle the processor (yeah it can't really keep up). At least the asus boards usually have proper protection and don't go bang. But with the ud3r much cheaper there's no reason to get the asus. This is true even when the price is the same because of the vrm on the gigabyte being stronger.

This price doesn't make sense, I found an M5A99FX pro 2.0 on Amazon for 136$ new

http://www.amazon.com/M5A99FX-PRO-R2-0-990FX-Motherboard/dp/B008B6ONXK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1396957696&sr=8-3&keywords=sabertooth+990fx

...that even supports SLi and is certified for FX 9xx0 series (you can expect 4.8-5Ghz on an octo on that thing if the chip is up to the task), so m5a97 evo r2.0 probably is a low volume item over there- with patience you should find it around 100-110$, it isn't worth a penny more than this That said, it IS a capable mobo, roughly on par with the UD3P and no, it won't throttle at reasonable clocks and voltage, the Asrock 990FX fatal1ty killer I tested a few weeks ago on the other hand was far more sensitive.
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post #1545 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

~35% more power consumption for a part that's over 50% faster. Seems reasonable. Especially since the intel part is from 2011.

That said SB-E =/= Haswell i5. Kyad PsyM4n and Blameless were talking about the 100W claim for Haswell i5 with around a 20% OC on it.

It's not even all that for the processing modules if we take into account that the intel part is meant to drive more memory and the pci lanes. It's even better if you take the power needs of an fpu compared to an integer unit into account.

Relative power needs still favor the intel part after all that... which is from 2011.

Yeah... technologically AMD is way behind even since 2011. Pricing is a whole different subject though.


Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

This price doesn't make sense, I found an M5A99FX pro 2.0 on Amazon for 136$ new

http://www.amazon.com/M5A99FX-PRO-R2-0-990FX-Motherboard/dp/B008B6ONXK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1396957696&sr=8-3&keywords=sabertooth+990fx

...that even supports SLi and is certified for FX 9xx0 series (you can expect 4.8-5Ghz on an octo on that thing if the chip is up to the task), so m5a97 evo r2.0 probably is a low volume item over there- with patience you should find it around 100-110$, it isn't worth a penny more than this That said, it IS a capable mobo, roughly on par with the UD3P and no, it won't throttle at reasonable clocks and voltage, the Asrock 990FX fatal1ty killer I tested a few weeks ago on the other hand was far more sensitive.

Blame the sales, rebates and the likes. The pro still has only six not so powerful phases and will limit the cpu after a point, but quite frankly, you'll rarely encounter throttling unless you stress-test all day. Now if it used those 60A fets IR makes or something it would be fine, but the fets used are not all that strong.
Edited by PsyM4n - 4/8/14 at 5:03am
post #1546 of 1593
The M5A97 EVOs VRMs are exactly the same as the M5A99FX PROs VRMs. As said numerous times the latter (990FX) only contains more PCI-E lanes.

As such if you have a single card you only need to look at a quality 970 chipset motherboard.

Also the M5A97 EVOs VRMs are powerful, in fact that was the board I achieved my highest 1045T overclock (HERE) http://valid.canardpc.com/2624284

No throttling, all 6 cores. It is a capable board. I have no doubt it can take a punch with a bit of overclocking with the 8320.

EDIT: At the time I wasn't familiar with using offset voltage, so that OC stuck at those voltages and those speeds for over a year without any trouble.
Edited by mikeo01 - 4/8/14 at 6:22am
post #1547 of 1593
For reference purposes, my 970A-UD3 rev 3.0 (sadly the UD3P was released just a few months after I built my AMD rig) was throttling my FX 6350 around the 4.6Ghz mark @ 1.37v or so. It just couldn't keep all cores @ that voltage during stability tests. For what it's worth, it could validate @ 5 GHz / 1.45v (and managed to run 1-2 aquamark benchmarks for HWBOT, so it was stable for single core load I guess). If I had to do it again, I'd be picking up a Sabertooth to make sure power delivery is good enough to let the determining factor for max OC be the chip quality instead of the VRMs.

Consumption with the bronze-rated Seasonic PSU I had at the time was around 200-220watts with an idling 7950, so pretty sure an 83xx would be closer to, if not above, the 250w mark.

By comparison the 4770k @ 4.5 Ghz with idling 280x and the 7950 in ULPS peaked at around ~190w @ 4.5GHz @ 1.4V (quick one button/stupid OC, no tuning involved, with my current PSU).

That said, I don't see why people brought up $70 mobos to begin with, they're definitely low end parts so they don't really have a place for a mid/high end rig on OC.net, picking a cheap mobo and OCing the CPU on it is like tuning a car's engine and bumping the output by 100hp and leaving the stock pump, it just isn't going to end well most of the time. And you really do need to OC the Visheras @ 4.5Ghz or more for them to start showing their power.
post #1548 of 1593
You tend to mix up alot here, when speaking about mid range systems I expect you to understand that this doesnt mean finding the "cheapest" motherboard and such. Possibly if you are doing a lower grade mid end gaming system, but if you would build a such, then OC wouldnt be your priority to beginn with. If you are going to OC for real and also invest in good cooling, it would be foolish to cheap out on a motherboard. I would never take a motherboard for 80-100 dollars serious if I would spend 1000 dollars on a mid range system. There are many evidence that shows that the lower grade motherboards are limiting the OC, not so much as before but still. There are motherboards that OC better and more stabile than others and these usually cost like 150 dollars for intel and around 140 for AMD with the 990fx chipset and good vrm cooling etc. These people who build gaming systems for 1000+ dollars using AMD do it because they wanna or like it, not because its the best "choice" for the money. It seem like some AMD users in here thinks like this "ohh im poor despite my profession and cant afford intel so I buy AMD and get almost the same or better performance for less, ihih".
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post #1549 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You know what isn't superficial? Every ASRock board I've ever owned bends when I plug in the sata cables. That's just pathetic, and very much low quality. (To be fair, the boards were mid-range at best)

Yeah, they have fewer and thinner PCB layers.

They don't need a huge number of layers to handle two channels of middling speed memory, 16x PCI-E lanes, and minimal integrated components.

More layers is a waste for the platform and the hardware most people would likely install on a system of the proposed budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

They are not up to par.

9 out of 10 of them will still last way longer than most people are going to need them to.

Indeed, my cheap boards tend to last the longest, because I don't expect to be able to push them hard. I have 50-70 dollar ASRock, DFI and Biostar boards that are 5-10 years old, that will probably be working years after I kill the 500 dollar Haswell-E board I don't even have yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

If you are hurting so bad for money that you must buy a $70 board

Wishing to trim unnecessary costs does not imply an inability to spend more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Do buy quality first, with features you may find a use for in the future and with room to expand.

Room to expand? By the time I need to expand a system, I need a new CPU socket.

Expansion to most people is adding another HDD, stick of RAM, or swapping out a video card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Don't buy low-end first because it's all you can afford, wishing you had better, and having to save up from scratch to get better things when you want/need them.

Parts are always getting cheaper. If you're that hard up you can buy used.

However, having written this whole rant, I acknowledge that there are those, including I am willing to guess yourself, that have lower bars for acceptance than I do.

I build for the task at hand, balancing reliability, longevity, expandability, performance, and cost to the needs of build. Sometimes this demands the highest quality available, more often it does not.

I can reasonably expect one of these 70 dollar boards to do what I claim they will do, reliably, for much longer than most people would keep a system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

~35% more power consumption for a part that's over 50% faster. Seems reasonable. Especially since the intel part is from 2011.

That said SB-E =/= Haswell i5. Kyad PsyM4n and Blameless were talking about the 100W claim for Haswell i5 with around a 20% OC on it.

Yeah, there is a huge difference between what is probably a leaky SB-E clocked way past the point of efficient scaling and the kind of OC I mentioned on the Haswell i5.

The last few hundred MHz on most any chip results in enormous increases in power consumption. Which is exactly why I recommend a more mild OC where budget is a strong consideration. If you can knock off half your board and most of your cooling cost and only need to sacrifice 5-10% of your total clock speed to do it, it may well be worth it for a mid-range system. It's not as fun though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

You tend to mix up alot here, when speaking about mid range systems I expect you to understand that this doesnt mean finding the "cheapest" motherboard and such.

If I'm not spending 50%+ of the budget on the GPU, I'm not making a real effort at optimizing gaming performance for the dollar.

Some one gives me a mid-range budget (lets say 1000 dollars) and tells me to build them them best gaming system possible within that budget, it's going to have a $70 motherboard, because I need to fit a GTX 780 (at least) in it. And I'm confident enough in such boards (well, in specific boards within this ballpark) that I will give them a warranty, in writing.
Edited by Blameless - 4/8/14 at 3:07pm
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post #1550 of 1593
Well my Rig cost 1000$(not counting my screens and surround sound) but I also got a lot of things I didn't need. Like a liquid cooler and a blu ray player.
I'm sitting at 4.4ghz on my 60$ mobo. Near i5 level bench marks. On an 80$ CPU.
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