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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 18  

post #171 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

If the CPUs have the same amount of overall processing power, they're both handling 1060 threads created by windows and one has 4 cores and one has 8 you are not going to see any difference that's noticeable by any human being.

The fact that even you say that the issue has been only really discussed in the 8300 club should tell you that there's something not quite right with the theory.

It's really a non issue, especially when you can be sure that for every guy claiming to have a faster "every day" experience on an AMD system there are many more who claim the same about intel systems.

So until there's proof.... The difference is about as real as the flying hippo I just saw near Saturn.
The FXs and i7s aren't in the same price range no. However the comparison was more clear there.

However we could just as well use an i5. A modern one, I want to point out. i5 being a compromise compared to FX might have been true with SB vs. PD, but with haswell i5s out it isn't anymore. SB i5 might have been clearly behind FX in multithreaded but Haswell isn't.

Again, about consistency. A haswell i5 is very close to an 8350 in multithreaded applications. (overall, I'm sure that there are a couple of exceptions as with everything but I'm looking for the big picture here)

However that same FX is nowhere near the i5 in single thread (or similar, uses 2 cores etc.) applications.

So again by going with the intel part you're getting much closer to the "best of both worlds" situation.
I could also be feeling a placebo, but that's only assuming that I can't notice the differences the benchmarks are showing. Yes it's possible in theory I guess but at least I know that the differences I talk about are actually there.

The problem with your user experience is that it doesn't have any proof to back it up. I'm quite sure that it's important to yourself and I'm also sure that you do believe that you are experiencing what you say you are. However since other people aren't you the argument somewhat flies out of the window. Especially when there's proof to suggest the completely opposite is actually true.
If you can utilize all cores 100% without wasting any resources (pretty much impossible) it doesn't matter how many cores you have.

There's no point in making a 4 cores vs. 8 cores argument out of this when the 4 cores are much, much better performing than the 8 cores are.

So in the end you're opting to choose the 8-core design with maybe 15% better overall computing power (over an i5) however for most applications it's very hard to utilize and will never be fully utilized.
Since you seemed to focus on games I'll do the same.

MMOs, RTS games, emulation, even some shooters and everything that doesn't have good multithreading in general is going to play much better on intel platforms.

And no, those games aren't always easy to run. Play SC2? Would you like a minimum of 30fps on intel or 15fps on AMD? That's a very noticeable difference.
9xxx are for AMD enthusiasts.

$500-$1000 intel CPUs are for people who want to have the fastest thing out there and also for intel enthusiasts.

There's a clear difference between the two. And I actually own a 9xxx series CPU.

I do play SC2 and my 8350 at stocks runs it just as good as my 3570k I had and my 2500K I had. Both were overclocked to 4ghz. My 8350 at stock plays SC2 maxed out just fine with no noticeable lag. From my not so scientific observations I get the same fps as they did and had the same level of drops.

I even had a 980x back when SC2 got released. I played SC2 on it as well.

All of the processors, including my 8350, run SC2 maxed out and I don't face any lag or slow downs that prevent the game from running smoothly when playing competitive games. Let alone single player. Custom maps like desert strike and nexus wars with mass spam of units play no differently than it did on my 980x, 2500k, and 3570k. I also noticed with my AMD that my FPS drop isn't as high as it was with my old lintels were. I've noticed, and I know a lot of other fellow AMD users have noticed and stated this as well, smoother, and higher average FPS.

I've gone through a lot of different builds because I like screwing around with processors. I even had a 2600K for a few months before selling it. Though I'm liking my 8350 so much that I'm going to be keeping it and just build something else on the side to mess with.

I know benchmarks are post to say otherwise from actually owning both and playing around with both I can't notice a difference.
Edited by orlfman - 3/3/14 at 5:34pm
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post #172 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagtek View Post






Stock scores on on the first one.

Can it be long 'til.............................

Good job , thanks for the information smile.gif
Now get that xenon 1230V3 score submitted to HWBOT and earn yourself a hardware cup! thumb.gif
( and some points for team OCN smile.gif )
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post #173 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

I feel like my celeron is faster than my i7, does that mean that it is true?

Nope. But then if from a personal perspective you can't tell the difference then you've got a bit more cash in your pocket smile.gif

Benchmarks mean nothing until you experience it for yourself. I can't tell a difference between my old overclocked Thuban and my I7 Ivy. Does that mean they are the same? Nope. But because I can't tell the difference shows benchmarks mean nothing.

Depends what you do and everyone is different. It only matters where professional work come into place. I mean professional applications, Maya, Adobe, Visual, rendering or video conversions, the big stuff.


Everything else is rated in milliseconds. It's when we look at professional applications where time = money. That's when this old thread is valid or worth arguing for.
post #174 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Good job , thanks for the information smile.gif
Now get that xenon 1230V3 score submitted to HWBOT and earn yourself a hardware cup! thumb.gif
( and some points for team OCN smile.gif )

hey, I did sign up and join the OCN team, now I have to submit my results.

kinda tough with the kids home today.

I'll get it done!

thanks for the help with that!
post #175 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I already did, using the same memory timings as with a 3770k rig with enhanced turbo (3.9) vs the 8350 locked at its max turbo speed (4.1). There was less than 5% difference, the 3770k score matched the example 3770k score on cb 15 exactly at 662. Not completely scientific, as there were differences in the ram kits used and the 8350 was mistakenly ran at 2200 mhz on the ht link speed vs stock 2600. I doubt it makes a lot of difference however.

If you want to compare your 4770k at the same settings please do. For my comparison I used the same timings and speed on the ram,for both machines . If you want to directly compare cpu vs cpu it might be best to match those, but that's up to you. Kind of a pain in the butt to change them.

First off, cool your jets man. OCN is meant to have high standards and low drama.



Even though I have confirmed this in another thread, the 4700mq performs in margin of error of i7-3770 (non K). My laptop runs 1600 DDR3 Ram. This is just one benchmark however and not representative of user experience in anyway.

Mine scores lower than the traditional 4700mq as I undervolted mine to reduce possibility of throttling from temperatures, I also only use up to x34 multi when the max is x36 however the performance loss is nothing for me to lose sleep over

EDIT2: Frankly Im amazed of the improvements made in the mobile sector, I just wish that AMD had some similar improvements so as to drive down the pricing.

This is my primary machine and I use it for Browsing, gaming, 10+ Virtual machines (single and multiple) and what ever else comes my way

Sorry if my response seemed a bit abrupt, little pressed for time at that moment and tact seemed to suffer a bit redface.gif

I too have a mobile I7 which is wonderful for a laptop, 3610 qm in mine. Looks like you are getting a lot of good use from yours and for what you are doing , I don't think AMD has the best mobile solution.

The other laptop I use is one I bought for my daughter for Xmas, its got an AMD apu in it, which is fantastic for what she uses it for. Schoolwork, email, skype, movies, and more skype, facebook, some light gaming (l4d css etc) and some more skype ( lol teenage girls) but she isn't running any VM's . Thanks for posting your cb 15 score very nice indeed for a mobile thumb.gif, still looking for a stock desktop 4770k score if anyone can help out.
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post #176 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Should run it again with HT enabled, the stock 8350's integer math score was nearly double what your 4770k's was. What clock were you running at?

Passmark lachen.giflachen.giflachen.gif
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post #177 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Should run it again with HT enabled, the stock 8350's integer math score was nearly double what your 4770k's was. What clock were you running at?

Passmark lachen.giflachen.giflachen.gif

A forum moderator brought it into the conversation , I was simply replying wink.gif
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post #178 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Sorry if my response seemed a bit abrupt, little pressed for time at that moment and tact seemed to suffer a bit redface.gif

I too have a mobile I7 which is wonderful for a laptop, 3610 qm in mine. Looks like you are getting a lot of good use from yours and for what you are doing , I don't think AMD has the best mobile solution.

The other laptop I use is one I bought for my daughter for Xmas, its got an AMD apu in it, which is fantastic for what she uses it for. Schoolwork, email, skype, movies, and more skype, facebook, some light gaming (l4d css etc) and some more skype ( lol teenage girls) but she isn't running any VM's . Thanks for posting your cb 15 score very nice indeed for a mobile thumb.gif, still looking for a stock desktop 4770k score if anyone can help out.

Were going wildly off topic here but I feel its worth mentioning...

The AMD APU mobile offerings are lackluster for VMs within VirtualBox. I cant speak for other applications but during my time interning at my vocational school (for IT) half my time was troubleshooting why the machines were bogging down to a mind boggling crawl with 1 VM. I think it has more to do with methodology of the architecture combined with lack of driver support than anything but still just irritating none the less. This is more a fault of my school not researching what they were getting and just going for the higher clock speed in a cheap system.

I really hate to quote Alatar on his statement earlier but it just unavoidable lol

When I purchased this machine I didnt feel I needed to hunt down applications I planned on using simply because the methodology has been around for quite some time and a majority has planned around this. though AMD is making strides back into the performance area (mobile) its still a shame that they have a long way to go. The A10 + 7970m is what I look to as an example of this.
    
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post #179 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

Gigabyte cheaped out on VRMs if I remember correctly. Caused a fair few blown boards on the interwebs since the boards couldn't handle OCs past ~4.6Ghz on an FX-83##.


I don't think that was the problem. The problem was that Gigabyte gimped the bios. Rev. 1.1 didn't have this problem.
post #180 of 1593
Please keep it civil guys.

The thread does not need to be closed, most of the discussion going on is completely relevant and not particularly argumentative. If you do have a problem with a particular member's comment try and refrain from responding negatively, instead just report the post and a moderator will deal with it.

Thank you. smile.gif
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