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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 32  

post #311 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Ok, hard to keep track of the 300+ posts

No problem.
post #312 of 1593
Quote:
No one on the intel side has said that you can't run an AMD CPU or that they aren't capable of running these games.

What we're saying is that intel is faster.

The argument of this thread in particular boils down to AMD's CPUs slipping downwards when it comes to placing somewhere in the high-mid-low ranges. They still run the applications obviously but compared to advancing intel part they don't do it as well as they once did.
Ok so here is the confusing part, where did anyone with AMD say Intel wasn't faster and required any one else to chime in and clarify that for us? Where did you or any other claiming Intels superiority ever positively in good light give AMDs place as anything less than viable or capable? And to be clear viable/capable does not necessarily mean the best but able.

Quote:
I've told you on many occasions that my CVF has a dead memory channel. There's no point in running gaming comparisons when one platform has crippled memory bandwidth.

That and an extensive comparisons would take days of work. I don't have time for that.
Ok this part I was not aware of and hence why I noted my uncertainty as to if you still owned any AMD CPU. Just pointing it out no controversy here. Moving on.
Quote:
Only seeing one part of the argument is bad.

People need to see all sorts of reviews and arguments and make their own decision based on those
Agreed, hence my first 3 questions ( the ones you dodged). Your using only benches to make an assessment of something that you apparently have little to no experience with is appalling. I don't give my assessment of Intel CPUs simply put because I don't own one. That is when I must defer to owners like you to give your experience for what one can ACTUALLY expect. Benches don't do that well at all. I have seen you on more than one occasion gripe about the clocks used on Nvidia GPUs for a particular bench. So I think it is safe that for the most part you have to agree benches are poor indicators for actual real life every day use experience.

This is why I say if one is interested in a FX 8350 and wishes to know if it is viable for a mid - high end computer then the answer is yes. Is it the best you can get, NO. Is it worth it at $____, yes. Then there are the particular tasks and then it becomes yes and no depending on the task. For Gaming yes.
post #313 of 1593
I must say that this thread has been an immense source of both information and amusement. Thanks for that biggrin.gif

I have read everything so far but all i can say is that AMD is still a viable option for a mid-high end gaming rig.

But that all depends on the definition of Mid-High End, for me personally it's with 1 High End GPU or 2 Mid range GPU in SLI/CF, Anything over that i class as Enthusiast Builds.

i7's and some i5's will give a better experience in general than the FX CPU's but they are still viable (Even if you throw the cost out the window)
 
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post #314 of 1593
Thread cleaned up a tad and unlocked.

I realize this is a topic that people can be very passionate about, and what we consider a good value is a very personal choice, but lets keep it respectful and informative so that everyone can be equipped to make that choice. thumb.gif
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post #315 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post



So in my opinion Vishera 8320 and 8350 are priced as mid-low range products and all Vishera products also perform at mid range level. 9xxx are priced in the high range but only have mid range performance overall.


Every single bench from gamegpu.ru that has a 4670K, 4770K and an 8350. (this means everything from the last 6 months)

-fps numbers are for average fps
-23 most recent games listed
-percentage differences and averages from those on the right
-no cherry picking at all, nothing left out

Raw data:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)



All articles from here: http://gamegpu.ru/

Every game bench from first 3 or 4 pages.


Conclusion:

On average in games:

i5 4670K is 20% faster than an FX 8350

i7 4770K is 24% faster than an FX 8350

To answer the question in OP:

AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end?

Answer: If i5 4670K is considered the lowest end CPU in "mid-high end" then no, AMD can't match the performance of "mid-high range" anymore.

If i5 4670K isn't the cut-off point for "mid-high range" then someone needs to decide what is.

Cold hard facts and simple math.
Yes there was something left out smile.gif
I'm curious, given the fact that you consider the 8350 to be a mid low range product, why did you choose it for your comparison in your spreadsheet rather than the 9xxx's? I would have thought it to be more relevant if that's how you see things.
I fixed it fixed.xlsx 13k .xlsx file
For those who don't have excel
The 4770k had about a 12% advantage over the 9370 and about 8% advantage over the 9590.

A correction on my part - I mistakenly used the 5650 for the comparison in passmark to the 8350. Here it is with the 5660
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=1780&cmp[]=1305
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post #316 of 1593
I chose the 8350 because once overclocking is taken into account the results again reflect the ones featuring the 8350.

Using a 9590 to compare (to raise performance at stock) is like using a locked i5 (lowering price) to compare. Both get left in the dust once everything is OC'd.
 
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post #317 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I chose the 8350 because once overclocking is taken into account the results again reflect the ones featuring the 8350.


When making comparisons it's best to use information that effects the broadest group of people, which would be stock speeds as the majority of people don't overclock , silly devil's
Overclocking or using used prices introduces way too many variables into a comparison.

Still , if the purpose is simply education, why not include the 9XXX's? No harm in that.
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post #318 of 1593
For the reason I already stated. For the same reason that Tahiti was a better buy than GK104. Overclocking.

We're on overclock.net, not stockclock.net.

If stock usage was what you wanted to talk about you would find that an i7 is a much cheaper option than a 9590. Buy a 4771, use stock cooler, put it into a H81 board.

So while you were paying around ~$300 for either a 9590 or a 4771, you would get a $60 mobo with the i7 and would be stuck paying ~$150+ for the AM3+ board and ~$80 for the cooler to keep the 9590 cool.

So at stock:

i7 = much cheaper and better performing.

But, since we don't care about stock on OCN the discussion is mostly irrelevant. I used an 8350 because it reflects the actual differences between all Vishera and haswell chips once OC'd (which is the important part here ofc).
 
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post #319 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

For the reason I already stated. For the same reason that Tahiti was a better buy than GK104. Overclocking.

We're on overclock.net, not stockclock.net.

If stock usage was what you wanted to talk about you would find that an i7 is a much cheaper option than a 9590. Buy a 4771, use stock cooler, put it into a H81 board.

So while you were paying around ~$300 for either a 9590 or a 4771, you would get a $60 mobo with the i7 and would be stuck paying ~$150+ for the AM3+ board and ~$80 for the cooler to keep the 9590 cool.

So at stock:

i7 = much cheaper and better performing.

But, since we don't care about stock on OCN the discussion is mostly irrelevant. I used an 8350 because it reflects the actual differences between all Vishera and haswell chips once OC'd (which is the important part here ofc).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

For the reason I already stated. For the same reason that Tahiti was a better buy than GK104. Overclocking.

We're on overclock.net, not stockclock.net.

If stock usage was what you wanted to talk about you would find that an i7 is a much cheaper option than a 9590. Buy a 4771, use stock cooler, put it into a H81 board.

So while you were paying around ~$300 for either a 9590 or a 4771, you would get a $60 mobo with the i7 and would be stuck paying ~$150+ for the AM3+ board and ~$80 for the cooler to keep the 9590 cool.

So at stock:

i7 = much cheaper and better performing.

But, since we don't care about stock on OCN the discussion is mostly irrelevant. I used an 8350 because it reflects the actual differences between all Vishera and haswell chips once OC'd (which is the important part here ofc).

Ok, you've brought the cost of supporting equipment in to the mix as something we are really concerned about.
This is a very difficult point to take seriously from a person that has a $400 motherboard and a $900 phase change unit in their sig.


You also made the a very broad statement in that we don't care about stock performance here, I actually do. It's the reality most of my customers will experience.

Another broad statement about I7's performing better at stock, I've already posted benchmark scores that prove that's not always the case. Hwbot prime , passmark and cinebench vs a 3770K for examples.
The 9590 and 4770k are 16 points apart on passmark http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2014&cmp[]=2&cmp[]=1919
I don't have a 4770K and would welcome stock scores for comparison to my simulated stock 9370 and 9590 cinebench scores.

You also posted proof that the I7 doesn't always outperform the 9590 at stock.
Notice the scores in this picture. The 9590 has a higher average fps than the 4770k here.


In this case is it "viable" to spend an extra $100 to gain 1 fps on average going from the 9370 to the 4770k?
If it is then why not buy the 9590 and have 7 more average fps for the same money as the 4770k smile.gif
Edited by cssorkinman - 3/9/14 at 6:35am
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post #320 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post


Ok, you've brought the cost of supporting equipment in to the mix as something we are really concerned about.

This is a very difficult point to take seriously from a person that has a $400 motherboard and a $1200 phase change unit in their sig.

You also made the a very broad statement in that we don't care about stock performance here, I actually do. It's the reality most of my customers will experience.

Another broad statement about I7's performing better at stock, I've already posted benchmark scores that prove that's not always the case. Hwbot prime , passmark and cinebench vs a 3770K for examples.
The 9590 and 4770k are 16 points apart on passmark http://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare.php?cmp[]=2014&cmp[]=2&cmp[]=1919
I don't have a 4770K and would welcome stock scores for comparison to my simulated stock 9370 and 9590 cinebench scores.

You also posted proof that the I7 doesn't always outperform the 9590 at stock.
Notice the scores in this picture. The 9590 has a higher average fps than the 4770k here.

The 9370 is also putting in a solid performance there, bigger gap than i expected between it and the 8350.

Easily comparable to the 4670k in that scenario considering they are the same price here.
 
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Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end?