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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 39  

post #381 of 1593
I've seen the AMD is smoother argument since the Core2 days (pre-Intel IMC). Even as an A64 owner, I knew that was droppings to put it lightly. More so when I moved from my final AMD build to an e8400 and noticed no drop in "snappiness" in my first foray on Intel hw.

The truest irony is that this debate may have started even before the A64 era, but with HT on the Northwoods.
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post #382 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

Benchmarks are a great starting point for data but they are not the end. The only true benchmark is actually usage.

The issue is benchmarks are not meant to represent real world experience.

The best benchmarks, for purposes of comparing different systems, try to emulate actual usage as closely as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

The difference is mainly in the benchmarks, its like running ram in dual channel vs single channel. Benchmarks show half the performance, but "real world" performance has marginal difference if any..

Most benchmarks won't show a significant difference between single and dual channel either, unless you only run memory specific benchmarks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

Only real difference between a desktop CPU and a server CPU is the supported instructions. Server CPUs are typically built better and can withstand harsher environments.

Also you'd think a server CPU to be superior in terms of I/O, they're stronger in some cases. Usually have lower clocks because they're meant for high multi-threading usually smile.gif

That said it's a bit unfair to compare them both as they are suited to different workloads.

The only difference between a Xeon and an i7 of the same architecture is the number of enabled QPI links, ECC/registered memory support, and the labeling on the IHS.

They are exactly the same designs and are cut from the same wafers. There is no consistent trend toward more durability or better overclocking for the Xeons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgt Bilko View Post

Still, If i wanted to build a Top AMD Rig then thats a 9590 and CVF-Z ($700AUD) vs a Top Intel rig 4770k and Maximus VI Extreme ($900 AUD)

Why would you even make this comparison unless you were deliberately trying to inflate the cost of the Intel platform?

Unless you have very specific needs or are going for extreme OCs on sub-ambient cooling, there is next to no reason to even consider the more expensive LGA-1150 boards.

A 100 dollar motherboard and 30 dollar cooler will take any Haswell to within 95% of the performance you are likely to achieve with a 300 dollar motherboard an a top-end custom water loop.

I need a quality motherboard and high end cooling to get an appreciable OC out of my eight core FX. However, both of these things are generally wasted on the last three generations of quad core Intel parts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

Probably because Piledriver supports newer instructions compared to my old Thuban?

Unlikely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The benchmarks would have you believe it, but they don't reflect normal usage very well by their very nature.

You are using the wrong benchmarks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Would you attempt max o/c on a 90 euro 1150 board though?

Yes, even on less expensive boards. I probably wouldn't even consider spending more than that on an LGA-1150 board.

The difference would be negligible with most cooling that didn't cost more than the CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

You actually mean you get no o/c benefit moving from G41 to say Z87-A or even a 200 euro board?

Yes.

As long as the board has a respectable BIOS, chances are you will reach max air/water OC on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

The purest overclocking measurement

Believe it or not, most people overclock for improvements to real world performance, not for max frequency records.

I've overclocked every system I've owned since at least 1995...have never attempted a world record, and have never submitted anything to HWBot or the like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Still there is a bunch that allows quite high clocks ( 970A-UD3P costs 84 or so for example) but you get your money's worth in o/c terms going with a sabertooth that costs 80% more.

I have both a 970A-UD3 and a Sabretooth 2.0. The Sabretooth lets me get nearly 300MHz more out of my FX-8150, all other things being equal. You aren't going to see such a phenomena with mainstream Intel sockets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I am considering a 1150 build and if all o/c the same, then anything more expensive than any basic model that allows SLi/CFX feels like poor value in that sense.

This is absolutely the case. As long as the board is not utter trash and has appropriate BIOS functionality, chances are it will OC very near vastly more expensive boards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav451 View Post

I've seen the AMD is smoother argument since the Core2 days (pre-Intel IMC). Even as an A64 owner, I knew that was droppings to put it lightly. More so when I moved from my final AMD build to an e8400 and noticed no drop in "snappiness" in my first foray on Intel hw.

The truest irony is that this debate may have started even before the A64 era, but with HT on the Northwoods.

The debate is far older than this.

Anyway, both the Athlon 64 and the first Hyperthreaded P4s had measurable advantages in areas that could explain a smoothness advantage vs the competition when they were first released.

A P4 Northwood had two hardware threads, it could handle multitasking measurably, and perceptibly, better than a contemporary Athlon XP.

An Athlon 64 often less than half the total memory latency of a Pentium 4. Again, this was easily measured, both directly, and via real world tasks.

These scenarios are far different from some of the subjective feelings presented in this thread, where parts that are literally slower in every measurable facet of performance are claimed as feeling smoother.
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post #383 of 1593
I was considering upgrading my FX Zambezi 8120 for FX 9590, but as of hearing that AMD has ceased manufacturing of the performance line of CPU's in addition of APU's. I considered the cost, heat, usage, running costs and found it is too much for what you pay for.

The fact that more games are going to be more optimized for their own hardware, but it would still not make me wan't to buy any AMD CPU of today when Intel based rigs will last longer, especially when DirectX 12 is coming out soon making what ever computing hardware we have slightingly obsolete for tomorrow.

May consider switching to Intel after being with AMD for over 10 years on my same system build.


Edited by Jos8coreHead - 3/10/14 at 2:28am
post #384 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jos8coreHead View Post

I was considering upgrading my FX Zambezi 8120 for FX 9590, but as of hearing that AMD has ceased manufacturing of the performance line of CPU's in addition of APU's.

Actually, they're still manufacturing them, and will continue to do so.
    
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post #385 of 1593
Quote:
especially when DirectX 12 is coming out soon making what ever computing hardware we have slightingly obsolete for tomorrow.

DX12 will only affect the GPU and given past DX history, its going to be quite some time before game developers catch up. It will probably be March 2016 before its stable and enough games are available to justify getting a DX12 card. And in 2 years, youll have a couple more generations of different cpus available.
    
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post #386 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post


Why would you even make this comparison unless you were deliberately trying to inflate the cost of the Intel platform?

Unless you have very specific needs or are going for extreme OCs on sub-ambient cooling, there is next to no reason to even consider the more expensive LGA-1150 boards.

A 100 dollar motherboard and 30 dollar cooler will take any Haswell to within 95% of the performance you are likely to achieve with a 300 dollar motherboard an a top-end custom water loop.

I need a quality motherboard and high end cooling to get an appreciable OC out of my eight core FX. However, both of these things are generally wasted on the last three generations of quad core Intel parts.

I made this comparison because they were the top tier that people could buy from their respective camps. (note i didn't say that it was needed)

I know that a Haswell doesn't need a top tier board to hit close to it's max potential but people buy them anyway.

and i agree, for an FX chip you need a decent board if you want to overclock, a Giga UD5 is the minimum i'd recommend for a Vishera chip.

AMD is behind Intel yes, but to answer the OP's question again, they are still Viable. In the end you would probably spend more on the AMD rig than the Intel one.

I'm trying not to put my foot in my mouth too much as i don't own a Haswell so i personally cannot compare the two, i have however gamed on a 4770k rig using a very simliar setup to me, I really didn't notice that much in game but browsing webpages etc felt just a little slower but i won't go on about that due to a feeling not being an accurate representation of performance.

if i was going to switch to Intel then it would be to a 4930k or similar. I don't have any interest in spending that amount of cash on something that in day to day scenarios doesn't feel that much different from my 8350.
 
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post #387 of 1593
AMD processors are currently only viable as budget workstation or currency mining material.

The AMD board chipsets have enough lanes to feed bandwidth sucking hardware and a decent GPU is multiple times faster than a CPU in floating point calculations. AMD processors are slow on this but with a fast GPU it doesn't matter, even Intel processors are much slower than a GPU.

The thing is that only industrial applications are designed to balance calculations between the GPU and CPU. Games and consumer oriented apps do one or the other (at least efficiently). So Haswell processors with their good (for a CPU) floating point performance and immerse cache speed and branch prediction are really a few levels above the AMD counterparts on those departments... that are abused by consumer oriented software.

Now, AMDs goal (for those of you who haven't noticed already) is complete graphics core integration to the processor, not as an integrated circuit with a different architecture, but as a circuit that uses the same architectural extensions, very similar in design to how the FPU was integrated back in the 386 days. When this happens, it will bring immerse possibilities and performance gains. It will be a perfect transitional period until something more efficient replaces silicone on ICs.

The question is, if AMD will manage to pull that off successfully, as it did with their 64 bit architecture back in the Athlon 64 days.
post #388 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

Here goes a series of side by side video benchmarks of the I7 4770K and the 9590......and there are some pretty significant differences:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JGkCFXR_9E

While the i7 wins in every test, the 9590 is still more expensive than the 4770K.

In the crysis 3 benchmark, the min FPS is of particular concern.....with the 4770K getting 44fps min, and the 9590 getting 29fps min. That's a pretty substantial difference. The i7 also had an average FPS just above a 60fps vsync....while the 9590 couldn't even deliver an average FPS at vsync rates at all.

Now think about how this translates into future performance even just 1 year from now, or even just 2. That 29fps min gradually falls to 18fps, then 12fps and so on. That average FPS goes from 50 to below 30.

With the pevalance of SSD's I would consider benchmarks to be on more relevant ground, since they negate the differences. But it's not what the benchmark numbers tell us that matter so much, it's how they perform in relation to each other. You might not see X score in the real world with either system, but what you will most likely see is they will be similarly apart in the real world as they are in benchmarks.....with the exception of the task relying on another component such as gaming, because gaming relies mainly on the GPU.....but as you can see, the CPU can also matter greatly in helping to churn out a meaningful performance difference.

I'd consider 44fps min unacceptable, even with an avg. fps of 63. But 29fps? Heck, I wouldn't even bother to play at that frame rate (of course you could always lower quality settings....but no one likes to do that).

Now if the 9590 is performing this way, then the $150-$200 8xxx's are going to perform even worse.

And these tests were done with a GTX 780 3GB, which is a $500 card, one of the top cards on the market in raw power. So lesser cards with lesser GPU's, will obviously have even lesser performance now and in the future.

Like I pointed out before....even something that costs 17% more, but delivers 30% more performance, IS a better price to performance ratio product than the other.
Sorry, Youtube is the worst material ever. And much like reviews I don't trust the work. It doesn't take much to make one system perform worse than another. A quick and DIRTY OC can do that easy. I doubt there is anyone here that goes in with a new chip/board and gets a stable OC in 5 min. Most take days testing, retweaking to get that max OC that is rock steady stable.

On a side note, well actually it is on target so not too much side, I notice you haven't commented on anything that proves it is viable only every so often throwing out some benchmark/video that only serves your purpose. Tell you what check this out: http://www.overclock.net/t/1458927/home-review-amd-fx-8320-4-5-vs-intel-3570k-4-5 And the same as any review: Take with a grain of salt. I am more inclined to trust this guy than a reviewer or someone on youtube. But I don't feel the need to live by it.
post #389 of 1593
Its so fun how amd is competing with intel at 32nm vs 22nm
post #390 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by untore View Post

Its so fun how amd's multicore performance can some times compete with intel at 32nm vs 22nm

Ftfy
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Swiftech MCR-320 XP 360mm rad Swiftech MCR-320 XP 120mm rad EK Supreme LTX Cpu block Biitspower ACX GTX 970 Water block 
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win7 64bit ultimate G13 Seasonic M211 620 watt Nzxt Guardian 
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Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end?