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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 40  

post #391 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by untore View Post

Its so fun how amd is competing with intel at 32nm vs 22nm
Yes Intel has a major advantage which starts that 28nm at TSMC nor GloFo can't even match 32nm that Intel is using. But there are also major flaws to the Bulldozer arch the floating point units are completely underpowered and the front end is too long. Excavator should take care of most of the problems with a completely redesigned fpu and with HDL in Carrizo it should easily push it even further past Intel in efficiency than it already does. (I'm pointing at low clocked Kaveri)
post #392 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by untore View Post

Its so fun how amd is competing with intel at 32nm vs 22nm

They definitely are not competing on a chip design level. Sure with price/performance but only because they are forced to. That's just the market forcing AMD to sell their parts at lower prices. However they cost much more to make than the intel ones do.

Vishera 8C:

315mm^2
125W TDP
No integrated NB
No integrated GPU

Haswell GT2 4C:

177mm^2 ( ~112mm^2 of which is dedicated to the CPU)
84W TDP
Integrated NB
Integrated GPU
Integrated voltage regulator

IB-E 6C:

257mm^2
130W TDP
integrated NB
twice the amount of memory controllers as the AMD/haswell designs

No, AMD definitely isn't competing well against intel's 22nm process.

Haswell more than handily outperforms Vishera pretty much across the board, usually by a wide margin, it has more integrated features on die and its die size dedicated to the CPU is just over 1/3 of Vishera's die.

IB-E on the other hand outperforms Vishera by about ~70%, consumes about as much power, has more integrated features on the die, and still maintains a smaller die size.

By Q3 this year we will have intel enthusiast parts that are literally more than twice as fast as the fastest AMD enthusiast parts.
 
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post #393 of 1593
On phone at work so can't go in depth, but there is a great error in your post. From SB to haswell the performance is minimal when in fact it should be rather large. Why? Software my dear Watson. It isn't about the hardware most of the time, it is how the software is coded/compiled. Haswells architecture improvements should have decimated SB but, and here is the kicker, REAL WORLD didn't show it. Ooohh that is intriguing.
post #394 of 1593
No you would be incorrect....

Since sandy the focus has been on graphics, power delivery and power consumption. There haven't been any major design changes to the core design. Haswell just added AVX2 support but that's about it, and we can't expect all software to use AVX2, that would be silly.

So yes, clock for clock perf has only increased by around 10-15% since sandy (small tweaks to the architecture) but sandy would still look a lot worse in the comparison I made. That's because it draws more power, has a bigger die size and has less integrated stuff.

I have no idea why you are under the assumption that core performance should have jumped up significantly from sandy. That's just completely incorrect. It's still very much the same core design with some tweaks.
 
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post #395 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

On phone at work so can't go in depth, but there is a great error in your post. From SB to haswell the performance is minimal when in fact it should be rather large. Why? Software my dear Watson. It isn't about the hardware most of the time, it is how the software is coded/compiled. Haswells architecture improvements should have decimated SB but, and here is the kicker, REAL WORLD didn't show it. Ooohh that is intriguing.

Guess that depends on what is real world, but its true that there have been minimal gains since 2nd gen
    
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post #396 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

They definitely are not competing on a chip design level. Sure with price/performance but only because they are forced to. That's just the market forcing AMD to sell their parts at lower prices. However they cost much more to make than the intel ones do.

So why the heck is Intel charging more for them and then locking a lot of their chips (a.k.a different chipsets and K editions)? Seems a bit greedy doesn't it.
post #397 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

So why the heck is Intel charging more for them and then locking a lot of their chips (a.k.a different chipsets and K editions)? Seems a bit greedy doesn't it.

They want high margins. All companies do.

However I'm pretty sure that keeping AMD somewhat afloat is also a pretty big part of that. Intel slashing prices by 50% would pretty much kill AMD. Neither intel or AMD wants that.
 
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post #398 of 1593
So they could really dominate the market if they wanted to, why aren't they? If they could knock their pricing wonder why they haven't already.
post #399 of 1593
If they managed to force AMD out of the x86 market they would most likely be split up by some US/EU rulings.

Intel's income for Q3 last year was $3 billion. You think they couldn't price cut some CPUs if they needed to?
 
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post #400 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

If they managed to force AMD out of the x86 market they would most likely be split up by some US/EU rulings.

Intel's income for Q3 last year was $3 billion. You think they couldn't price cut some CPUs if they needed to?

Exactly. Regulation of the industry is the only thing that's kept AMD afloat at this point. Intel could easily force AMD out of the market with price cuts.
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