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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 66  

post #651 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Ok lets try this. My point wasn't actual numbers but the mobility of the graph in the Intel opposed to the AMD. But that was a quick and dirty point, but in no way changes the Min/Max/Avg point I was making. So I went and quickly looked into the Mantle thread because they have been graphing BF4 performance. Now these graphs aren't going to be exactly the same benching scenario, or I can't state whether they are.
290CF with FX 8350

290 CF with Intel SB-E 3930K

Tri fire 290X so not really helping with apples to apples but enough to show some, with 4930K:

I kind of wished they had same Graph sizes so it would be easier to tell. If anything it shows how comparable the systems are (trust me, the Mantle graphs would upset too many here) with DX11. Although you can kind of see the Intel graphs are a bit more jumpy. So I am not making this up or trying to put one in a better light than another. Again from these graphs, I think it proves the end result is fairly equal or within the ballpark.

Well, those look like two completely different scales to me, you can manipulate how a frametime chart looks too much by changing the scale on X axis - you see how one (the first one) looks big and blocky? There's lots of data points - if you have a long benchmark condensed, it'll look like that. Here, here's two of my benches on the same system and game:

9WMqg5a.png

NZil0WE.png

Sorry i can't really see your graphs (too small pics) or what they're labeled as, but having benched a lot of stuff it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is some bf4 specific behavior here~

Aside from that, the slow frames look like outliers, bugs with mantle to me. They're too far spaced apart. The slow frames in my benches above are from that game engine in particular - there's a slow frame created when things like significant explosions are made and that's consistent for all cpu's

TBH for bf4 it doesn't matter. It scales well to enough threads, FX and Haswell will both run the game poorly with dx and both run the game great with Mantle. I'm not sure if there's any significant performance differences between the two CPU's in terms of frametime variance in frostbite engine but i was under the impression that frametime variance was basically a nonfactor with mantle (and it was a trainwreck on both sides without, for one seeking 120hz strobing..)
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/17/14 at 5:26pm
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post #652 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Well, those look like two completely different scales to me, you can manipulate how a frametime chart looks too much by changing the scale on X axis - you see how one (the first one) looks big and blocky? There's lots of data points - if you have a long benchmark condensed, it'll look like that. Here, here's two of my benches on the same system and game:

9WMqg5a.png

NZil0WE.png

Sorry i can't really see your graphs (too small pics) or what they're labeled as, but having benched a lot of stuff it wouldn't surprise me at all if there is some bf4 specific behavior here~

Aside from that, the slow frames look like outliers, bugs with mantle to me. They're too far spaced apart. The slow frames in my benches above are from that game engine in particular - there's a slow frame created when things like significant explosions are made and that's consistent for all cpu's

TBH for bf4 it doesn't matter. It scales well to enough threads, FX and Haswell will both run the game poorly with dx and both run the game great with Mantle. I'm not sure if there's any significant performance differences between the two CPU's in terms of frametime variance in frostbite engine but i was under the impression that frametime variance was basically a nonfactor with mantle (and it was a trainwreck on both sides without, for one seeking 120hz strobing..)
Yeah I wasn't making specific issues just making the point that there is always more to the story. I am sure most of us can get great performance from anything. Even those graphs I showed don't make one look any better than another, which helps the discussion here, at least that AMD is viable.

Edit: I thought I stated it but they were all DX with one having mantle in the same pic.
Edited by Durquavian - 3/17/14 at 6:36pm
post #653 of 1593
dx bf4 has too many frametime issues on both camps
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post #654 of 1593
if you have a specific task they excel at over Intel (like virtualization) than it's an obvious choice. otherwise, they really are losing (in terms of value) in most markets at the mainstream and even budget price points, while they don't have an offering in the high end segment at all.
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post #655 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stay Puft View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

No score listed for the 9370 on pov-ray 3.7 so I simulated it with my 8350.
Results

4.6Ghz 4770K


Hello Stay puft,
How about the stock 4770K score ?

400 mhz overclock on my FX-9370 managed to beat a 700mhz overclock on your 4770K smile.gif



Not bad for low end "garbage" wink.gif
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post #656 of 1593
I've been reading thread since it started and I knew it is going to have a clash of the Titans biggrin.gif

When I was building a new PC the first thing that I thought of was which i5 do I go for, I didn't think AMD or INTEL!! Then a friend of mine suggested me to look for using AMD FX-8150 for my build, it looked good and after I built it actually felt really good, great.

I didn't play games at 1080p, I had a 1280x1024 screen on which I played almost every game with either high or very high/ultra details very smoothly. Sleeping Dogs was the only game that couldn't perform that well on my system, but that was for the GPU not CPU.

For the CPU, I use true-crypt benchmark as a very good indicator. Since it doesn't use instructions that aren't there on most CPU's that peple use.
At 4.2 GHz I used to get 3.5 GB/s of AES encryption speed, it is a very reliable benchmark in my opinion due to it being very-well threaded & using hardware acceleration (hardware AES instructions), I don't know which Intel CPU's don't have hardware AES, if none then we should use this also as a comparison since encryption is also something that most people do it regularly for security purposes.
    
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post #657 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Ok lets try this. My point wasn't actual numbers but the mobility of the graph in the Intel opposed to the AMD. But that was a quick and dirty point, but in no way changes the Min/Max/Avg point I was making. So I went and quickly looked into the Mantle thread because they have been graphing BF4 performance. Now these graphs aren't going to be exactly the same benching scenario, or I can't state whether they are.
290CF with FX 8350
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
290 CF with Intel SB-E 3930K

Tri fire 290X so not really helping with apples to apples but enough to show some, with 4930K:
I kind of wished they had same Graph sizes so it would be easier to tell. If anything it shows how comparable the systems are (trust me, the Mantle graphs would upset too many here) with DX11. Although you can kind of see the Intel graphs are a bit more jumpy. So I am not making this up or trying to put one in a better light than another. Again from these graphs, I think it proves the end result is fairly equal or within the ballpark.

The CF 290's and 8350 are mine Durq, That was a DX run to prove that mantle was running smoother for me opposed to DX.

the other results are from much longer games and unfortunately i can't provide any tests for BF4 until i get some decent net to play on (4 weeks away)

Happy to run some benches though if people want results smile.gif
 
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post #658 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

400 mhz overclock on my FX-9370 managed to beat a 700mhz overclock on your 4770K smile.gif



Not bad for low end "garbage" wink.gif

1.572v voltage and you beat me by like .04% wink.gif
Edited by Stay Puft - 3/18/14 at 12:48am
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post #659 of 1593
In my humble opinion AMD is a viable option for mid range but not high end.
I remember reading an AMD Annual report a couple of years back where they stated there that the timing in releasing new hardware and technologies is crucial . It looks like they missed that time frame ever since Phenom I.
Bulldozer 2010, Piledriver 2011, Steamroller 2012, Excavator 2013... , and AMD would look different now.
post #660 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by hagtek View Post

I really don't have a dog in this fight.

I don't care about either corporation just the better product for the money spent.

I built 2 intel machines late last year and wanted to see what AMD was all about. I couldn't resist an 8320 for $99 at Micro Center so I bought it along with a Gigabyte GA970A-UD3P for a bundled cost of $79.99. For perspective that's the same cost as the 4670K they have on sale.

My intel and AMD builds all run fine. However, even with the AMD overclocked the intels are more powerful and in my book give more for the money spent.

I honestly don't know what to think. If you need the 4770K performance then the $99 priced 8320 isn't a bargain even at that price, in fact it's a waste of money.

I assume AMD is in business to make money (although they lost money last year) and not necessarily to produce high end, high performance cpus.

Their move to APUs could turn out to be a good one for the company and I expect PS4 and XboxOne sales to help them out. I'll watch their first quarter earnings this year.

Hopefully with their work in APUs GPU memory etc...we'll see some performance increase or new ideas with regard to high end cpu design. On the other hand though they could be barking up the wrong tree.
Well from what you said the i5 would be double the price of the 8320 but do you get double the performance???
The i5 is indeed more powerful in singlethread no matter how much you OC the 8320 but in multithread not so much.

If you want 4770k performance level but you don't have 320$ then you can't say the you wasted your money buying a 8320.
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