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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 68  

post #671 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, lots of things.

For starters, the review is from when both the 8350 and the 3770k were meant to be around the same retail price. AMD was losing, badly, so they decreased the selling price. Intel had no reason to do it due to the performance gap.

Next you have the max TDP on both processors. In the end you're saving $ from the electricity bill just by going with Intel. Not to mention that those Intel processors keep the TDP down, while having more stuff integrated, and still performing better.

Then you have the elephant in the room. It's 2014 and AMD is still stuck with the 8350. No issue here.
But comparing the latest AMD processor in that price point with an outdated Intel, while Intel has something better and faster than Ivy Bridge out around the same price is not exactly fair.

edit: rephrased the price part, 3 words can make a big difference.
Edited by PsyM4n - 3/18/14 at 10:10am
post #672 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post



Am I missing something here? You can compare 3770k to 8350 all day long, but in the end you can get AM3+ motherboard + FX 8350 for the cost of a 3770k.



And of course there will be benchmarks where AMD is a major stinker. It was even like that when AMD was superior to Intel. They are different architectures with different capabilities, of course they won't always be 10% faster in every single benchmark.

 


my point with my post was to show that the result can differ a lot between benchmark, from gx8350 being 40% faster to i7-3770k being 123% faster, you have to look at the whole picture and not value individual benchmarks to much, however even C-ray where fx8350 performs very well a i7-3930k will still be faster but not 3 times as fast so it doesn't scale linear with price of course.
    
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post #673 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

Yeah, lots of things.

For starters, the review is from when both the 8350 and the 3770k were meant to be around the same retail price. AMD was losing, badly, so they decreased the selling price. Intel had no reason to do it due to the performance gap.

This was never the case. FX-8150 was originally priced a bit lower than i7-2600k but FX-8350 was priced around i5 levels from the get go.
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post #674 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

This was never the case. FX-8150 was originally priced a bit lower than i7-2600k but FX-8350 was priced around i5 levels from the get go.

Cause unlike what AMD predicted, the changes made since 8150 were not enough to make the 8350 competitive against intel quad cores with hyper threading that were out at the time of release.

The plan was to price the 8350 around 250-300$ but with the commercial flop the 8150 was, and intel more or less destroying even the 8350 with their ~300$ products, AMD had to drop the release price to around 200$ to become even remotely competitive.

AMD then tried to cash in with the FX 9000 series instead, by eventually releasing them at their scheduled (ridiculous) price, but even then they had to drop the price to sell them.


Gotta admit that the way I phrased that gave the impression that I was referring to the actual selling price. I was merely referring to what AMD had in mind before releasing, until it became obvious to them that they would not be competitive unless they got the product out with an initial price cut.
post #675 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

Cause unlike what AMD predicted, the changes made since 8150 were not enough to make the 8350 competitive against intel quad cores with hyper threading that were out at the time of release.

The plan was to price the 8350 around 250-300$ but with the commercial flop the 8150 was, and intel more or less destroying even the 8350 with their ~300$ products, AMD had to drop the release price to around 200$ to become even remotely competitive.

AMD then tried to cash in with the FX 9000 series instead, by eventually releasing them at their scheduled (ridiculous) price, but even then they had to drop the price to sell them.


Gotta admit that the way I phrased that gave the impression that I was referring to the actual selling price. I was merely referring to what AMD had in mind before releasing, until it became obvious to them that they would not be competitive unless they got the product out with an initial price cut.
Ok I am all for opinions and certainly you have them but seeing how you are not an AMD employee I doubt seriously you know what their moves and intentions actually are. Not sure what you are basing the quad core non-competitive analysis upon but you are so far off base it isn't even funny.
post #676 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Ok I am all for opinions and certainly you have them but seeing how you are not an AMD employee I doubt seriously you know what their moves and intentions actually are. Not sure what you are basing the quad core non-competitive analysis upon but you are so far off base it isn't even funny.

Since when did we trust reps to be accurate account of information?
    
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post #677 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

Since when did we trust reps to be accurate account of information?
So you say you trust a single individual with obvious slights toward the topic of their discussion? Really this is the question you choose to ask. I prefer to go off what was known everything else is speculation and in the aforementioned case an opinion.
post #678 of 1593
?

That's common sense actually. You don't need "inside info" for that. As long as a product -any product- is competitive, the manufacturer can set a higher selling point in order to cash in.

Now, when the product starts being less competitive, the price starts falling. If that was not the case then prices would never drop, on anything.


Not to mention that AMD products are known for getting some severe price cuts since the old days.


That's how the industry works. It's not a matter of opinion.
post #679 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

So you say you trust a single individual with obvious slights toward the topic of their discussion? Really this is the question you choose to ask. I prefer to go off what was known everything else is speculation and in the aforementioned case an opinion.

I wouldnt say either, I asked the question I asked, not metaphoric in even the slightest.

Do a quick google search on Lenovo Ultrabays for my Y510p. You'll find that they are practically nonexistent. If I find a customer to rep to tell me that they will be releasing ultrabays in a month, should I believe the rep or the mountain of evidence saying otherwise?

Instead of looking for a single entity to take confidence in just do the research yourself and wait for the next roadmap leak to get your hopes up

Just because Im not lining up with pitchforks for AMD doesnt mean Im going to side with Intel gang. Its a little rude to think that. AMD has plenty of uses for me, but I hardly feel the need to justify them to you.
Edited by TheReciever - 3/19/14 at 9:43am
    
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post #680 of 1593
Your original argument was far from a education in marketing. It wasn't about why prices eventually fall. It was your assessment of price at entry and how it competed, rather how it didn't, when infact the 8350 did and very much so against most every quad Intel had. After a few releases by Intel the 8350 is less able to compete easily with the majority of Intel's top end but still is competitive. Your post was not devoid of inherent bias nor was it an attempt at honest fact.
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