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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 70  

post #691 of 1593
No because we've been through that already.

9xxx gets destroyed after OCing is taken into account and at stock they're much more expensive than i7s for basically the same performance while offering less features and putting out tons of heat. So basically they're absolutely useless from a performance stand point.

I mean seriously. Replace the FXs with 770s and i7s with 290Xs and make the same arguments as you're making for the FXs. I doubt that you'd do it since they just simply don't make any sense at all.

It would be pointless to include some super high clocked and expensive hyndrocopper 770 in a comparison. And it would be silly to claim that the 290X doesn't win in 98% of the cases...

Yeah sure a 770 has extremely fast pure tesselation performance and is better in OpenGL but how many people actually care about that 2% of cases where those advantages actually matter? Very few. And raising those points in a discussion about general performance is pretty pointless.

If you have a specific niche task that performs well on an FX / 770 then yeah go for it. But as far as the general users go i7 / 290X will be the faster choice. And clearly so.
 
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post #692 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Scientifically collected stats wink.gif ? Not willing to allow the 9XXX's into the fray?

Well, the old and outdated Radeon 5850 is like 3 times faster than a Radeon R9 270X in double precision floating point calculations for example. This doesn't stop the 270x from destroying the 5850 when using both in more typical scenarios... like when playing a game and such for example.
post #693 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

After a few releases by Intel the 8350 is less able to compete easily with the majority of Intel's top end but still is competitive.

Can you show me where the 8350 is competitive against Intel's latest i7s?
 
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post #694 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Scientifically collected stats wink.gif ? Not willing to allow the 9XXX's into the fray?

Not allowing X5650's overclocked into the fray either? rolleyes.gif

There are good reason's that it wouldn't be a very relevant comparison. I think we've covered them already.


You are welcome to have a different opinion.
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post #695 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

There are good reason's that it wouldn't be a very relevant comparison. I think we've covered them already.


You are welcome to have a different opinion.

AT 1.5v if I wasnt stable then either A.) Im doing it wrong or B.) The chip is bad to begin with

but sure rolleyes.gif
    
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post #696 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

No because we've been through that already.

9xxx gets destroyed after OCing is taken into account and at stock they're much more expensive than i7s for basically the same performance while offering less features and putting out tons of heat. So basically they're absolutely useless from a performance stand point.

I mean seriously. Replace the FXs with 770s and i7s with 290Xs and make the same arguments as you're making for the FXs. I doubt that you'd do it since they just simply don't make any sense at all.

It would be pointless to include some super high clocked and expensive hyndrocopper 770 in a comparison. And it would be silly to claim that the 290X doesn't win in 98% of the cases...

Yeah sure a 770 has extremely fast pure tesselation performance and is better in OpenGL but how many people actually care about that 2% of cases where those advantages actually matter? Very few. And raising those points in a discussion about general performance is pretty pointless.

If you have a specific niche task that performs well on an FX / 770 then yeah go for it. But as far as the general users go i7 / 290X will be the faster choice. And clearly so.



So, here is the end result of Alatar's logic. No one buy an AMD CPU....ever again. How do you think that will end?
Because the bottom line is AMD can not make better processors without better R&D. They can't afford better R&D because every time someone wants to buy an AMD CPU,even though it would do an ok job, they get jumped on by Intel elitist telling them they are stupid for buying an inferior product.
So everyone just by Intel and shut AMD's CPU branch down. Case closed.
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post #697 of 1593
Intel has provided me with better value for my money ever since I changed from my 1090T/CHIV(<3) setup. maybe people can say the opposite with AMD. absolute performance and efficiency is on Intel's side, but AMD is still viable, even preferable depending on the situation.
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post #698 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

There are good reason's that it wouldn't be a very relevant comparison. I think we've covered them already.


You are welcome to have a different opinion.

Seriously, comparing a CPU that draws 75 watts with one that consumes 3 times that amount is not quite a relevant comparison either.

You'd never do that when comparing GPUs of the same era, solely for the reason of being fair and subjective.

The point is that even under those circumstances, an FX 9590 with the nuclear plant it needs to power it is struggling to keep a clean lead against a 4770k. That's a comparison that completely disregards long term costs and extra costs to keep the AMD part cool... and the AMD part still has issues taking a clean lead.


That's like saying that you'd buy a 3000$ car needing 1000$ per month on gas, than a 4000$ car needing 300$ on gas per month to travel the same distance, just because the first runs 2 miles faster per hour.

Seriously, there's something really wrong with the reasoning of some people.
post #699 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

So, here is the end result of Alatar's logic. No one buy an AMD CPU....ever again. How do you think that will end?
Because the bottom line is AMD can not make better processors without better R&D. They can't afford better R&D because every time someone wants to buy an AMD CPU,even though it would do an ok job, they get jumped on by Intel elitist telling them they are stupid for buying an inferior product.
So everyone just by Intel and shut AMD's CPU branch down. Case closed.

I've never said that. In fact I very much agree with buying the 8-core FXs for some OCing fun. Or the lower end chips (6300 and down) for lower end gaming machines.

I've personally bought three 8-core FXs and two FM2 chips lately. I think AMD getting more money is great. AMD being competitive is great.

However.

That does not mean that I will do PR for AMD and tell people that their chips can compete with high end intel's. Or that 8-core FXs are good value for gaming. I wont sugarcoat the reality of things and mislead gamers in order to protect AMD. AMD is a multi-billion dollar company, they will do just fine without any of us.
 
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post #700 of 1593
With the PS4 and Xbox One going the AMD route and since both of them have 8 core CPUs, gaming is going to start using more cores since PC and console ports of the same game will be built with similar specs in mind now that the PS4 and Xbox One use x86. It is now easier to make games for both systems and PCs at the same time. The problem in the past is that Xbox 360 and PS3 hardware was so different from PC hardware. The PS3 used cell architecture and the Xbox 360 used 3 physical cores (6 logical) in its Xenon CPU. PC ports of games had to downgrade their system utilization a lot. Look at most big budget multi-platform games, and they have been built with consoles in mind first because that is where the money comes from. Now that every system is, for the most part, just PCs inside of a console, game developers will be able to develop games that use more CPU resources, which means that an 8 core FX 8350 will have a longer life inside of my PC. As it stands right now, games only use a few cores because of that console limitation. They can't make a game that works on a console and then completely redo everything to make a better PC game. They have to develop for the lowest common denominator. This is just my assumption but I think I have a good point here.
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