Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 75  

post #741 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

Ehm, that's the total system consumption when only the CPU is loaded. Not just the CPU consumption.

On the case of the Intel you have like 135 watts, minus the south-bridge, storage drive and the working peripherals. That's about 50 watts less. So the CPU is close to a 85 watts consumption.

On the FX 9590 you have like 315, again minus the extras. That's about 70 watts less, so the CPU is close to a 245 watts consumption.

Now, unless math changed since the time you posted that pic, the AMD one consumes about 3 times what the Intel consumes.

What the heck?
And you are assuming seeing how the chart does not specify whether it is total or just CPU. Does not change the fact TDP does not = Watts, which seems to be what you are dancing around not the fact the average daily use will see only a difference of 20% generally unless you are folding on cpu 24/7. When someone here brings up power concerns it usually means they don't have a valid argument against and must stoop to the least valid argument and likely the most inflated topic. There have been a lot of tests and it has been proven the difference was about $20-25 per year. In the case of most of these MSRP prices it would take a few years to even out and many the AMD to become more expensive, total cost, than Intel. But for the most part this is a thread about MID-HIGH-END and cost has a lot less to do with the argument. If the concern was power usage then we might as well talk about APUs.
post #742 of 1593
I totally support you @Durquavian in this argument, TDP != Watts consumed. My FX-8150 is running at 3.9 GHz downclocked and LLC disabled with all the power saving features enabled, it never goes above 99 Watts (that is only for CPU)! it goes to around peak 136~140W at full load when LLC is ON depending on the how auto-voltage works. Unless you actually measure the power consumption of the CPU accurately you can never argue that TDP == Watts consumed, it never happens.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8150 ASUS M5A97 R2.0 AMD Radeon HD 6670 Corsair  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Blue Samsung Super WriteMaster AMD FX-8150 Stock Air Cooler Windows 8 PRO x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Lenovo 17 inches CRT Lenovo Cooler Master Thunder 500W Cooler Master Elite 311 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Lenovo Lenovo Lenovo 
  hide details  
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8150 ASUS M5A97 R2.0 AMD Radeon HD 6670 Corsair  
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Western Digital Caviar Blue Samsung Super WriteMaster AMD FX-8150 Stock Air Cooler Windows 8 PRO x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Lenovo 17 inches CRT Lenovo Cooler Master Thunder 500W Cooler Master Elite 311 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Lenovo Lenovo Lenovo 
  hide details  
post #743 of 1593
I made a point like 100 posts back about power consumption.

The I7-3770 I had was rated at 77W whilst my Athlon 760K is rated at 100W. Yet my findings were:

I7@stock
idle 65-75w
load 140w

ATHLON X4@stock
idle 52w-110w
load 150-160w

Explain. That's a massive fluctuation. So, either the power savings features on AMD's part are more aggressive yet also quite loose or the I7 is consistent. Yet my Athlon at stock consumed 10-20W more which is pretty decent and also minimal. I know it's not an argument because mines a quad but the point is it's not all to do with TDP. It's not always TDP = power but in fact depends on the processor.


Also for people who are mentioning other people using huge monitors and SLI/Crossfire, they are the people who have money. You do realise the majority can only afford and only want to afford a single monitor and maybe one powerful card? The fact that a FX can still power it makes the point point of viability valid.


Also I don't like the whole FX-9000 comparison, the FX-9000 series are a complete waste in my opinion. It's expensive and hot. FX-8350 at stock performs great as it is.


The point is you'd get a great system for cheap, the initial costs are exaggerated. You can buy a UD3P for cheap, a simple cooling solution (Hyper 212 EVO or something) and run your FX-8350 happily. They ship it with a stock heatsink so any aftermarket cooler will be OK. Its when you overclock the thing.


Same thing applies to Ivy and Haswell, overclock = hot. My I7-3770 ran at 50c with a Phanteks PH-TC14PE, that's hot. I have no doubt if you overclock it the heat and power will rise just like a FX.

Point is:

AMD
  • Cheap
  • Great performance
  • Hot
  • Eats a bit more power
  • Eats power when overclocked

Intel
  • Expensive
  • Very good performance
  • Hot
  • Eats less power
  • Eats power when overclocked

Get the pattern, you pay more for Intel and you get more performance. You pay less and you get less performance.


Intel gives you slightly more FPS in CPU bound games, but they're good for tasks that require fast throughput (higher IPC). That's why they're good at rendering or whatever. Your AMD system will do the same but slightly worse (FPS and rendering time for instance).

Point being there are few applications which favour Intel, and as I have said a lot unless your work requires professional software it starts not to matter as much. If you are willing to shell out more for an Intel based system for gaming or day to day stuff then you are the type of person who is probably willing to shell out for more than one graphics cards.


It's down to professional software why an I7 or Xeon would be recommended.

We should be looking at I5s for the comparison, AMD has their Opterons for higher end, same as an I7 and Xeons.


OPINION smile.gif
post #744 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Some of you are showing your age by not remembering the age when you could buy lower end CPU models and just overclock them into higher end ones. .

AAHHH the days of the Celeron 300 :-)
post #745 of 1593
Quote:
My I7-3770 ran at 50c with a Phanteks PH-TC14PE, that's hot.

That's freezing on intel terms, i don't know anyone with an i7 from any gen which stressed @50c, only times i've seen temps in 50's under stress is with expensive cooling coupled with very conservative voltages
Insert Name Here
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
6700k Asus Maximus VIII Hero Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme 1080ti Corsair LPX 2x8GB 3200c16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Old Seagate HDD Samsung 850 EVO Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E SE Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus PG258Q (240hz + Gsync) WASDKeyboards.com v1 semi custom w/ mx browns, ... Superflower Golden Green HX550 Air540 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech G Pro Qck+ 
  hide details  
Insert Name Here
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
6700k Asus Maximus VIII Hero Gigabyte Aorus Xtreme 1080ti Corsair LPX 2x8GB 3200c16 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Old Seagate HDD Samsung 850 EVO Thermalright Silver Arrow SB-E SE Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus PG258Q (240hz + Gsync) WASDKeyboards.com v1 semi custom w/ mx browns, ... Superflower Golden Green HX550 Air540 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech G Pro Qck+ 
  hide details  
post #746 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow11377 View Post

What'll probably happen instead is they'll beat Intel at making a 16-Core CPU, and it will probably beat the i5's in multi-threaded stuff even if the i5s become 8-cores.
They already make a 16-core CPU in the server space, the Opteron 6380. The problem AMD would have in making a 16-core CPU for the desktop is that the clock speed would have to be much higher, which in turn would make the TDP absolutely ridiculous. A 16-core FX at the 9590 clock rates would have a 440W TDP.

AMD couldn't produce a product like that, realistically, unless they get a more efficient microarchitecture and a smaller process node.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

I made a point like 100 posts back about power consumption.

The I7-3770 I had was rated at 77W whilst my Athlon 760K is rated at 100W. Yet my findings were:

I7@stock
idle 65-75w
load 140w

ATHLON X4@stock
idle 52w-110w
load 150-160w
Not surprising. Intel has always played fast and loose with their wattage ratings, and there have been times that AMD has, as well. Vishera and its derivatives are more power-hungry than Haswell, but if you start OC'ing Intel chips, they'll suck down volts just as happily as AMD's will.

The truth of the matter is that a lot of enthusiasts aren't going to care, anyway. We want our computers to do what we want them to, and if that means giving them more juice, then give them the juice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar63 View Post

AAHHH the days of the Celeron 300 :-)
That was nothing. How about the $50 Applebred Duron 1600 that you could turn into the $250 Athlon XP 2800+ with the help of a $2 conductive pen? thumb.gif
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon X4 870K 4700mhz 1.63v ASUS A88X-PRO Radeon HD 6970 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB DDR2133 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston V300 Toshiba 2.5" laptop HDD, 1TB Micron C300 SSD Generic 2TB HDD WL2000GSA1672 (external) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate Momentus XT 500GB ASUS DVD-RW Prolimatech Black Series Megahalems Linux Mint 18 Cinnamon "Sarah" 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 ViewSonic VG2030wm IBM Model M Fractal Design Newton R3 600W 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Phanteks Enthoo Pro Logitech Marble Mouse Behringer UCA222 Upgraded Realistic Minimus-7 speakers, Lepai 20... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile T9900 Dell 0G848F Intel Mobile 4 series 4GB Crucial DDR2-6400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
OWC Mercury Electra 3G 44GB SSD stock DVD-RW Linux Mint Cinnamon 17.1 "Rebecca" 1366x768 WXGA 
  hide details  
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon X4 870K 4700mhz 1.63v ASUS A88X-PRO Radeon HD 6970 G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 16GB DDR2133 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston V300 Toshiba 2.5" laptop HDD, 1TB Micron C300 SSD Generic 2TB HDD WL2000GSA1672 (external) 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate Momentus XT 500GB ASUS DVD-RW Prolimatech Black Series Megahalems Linux Mint 18 Cinnamon "Sarah" 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 ViewSonic VG2030wm IBM Model M Fractal Design Newton R3 600W 
CaseMouseAudioOther
Phanteks Enthoo Pro Logitech Marble Mouse Behringer UCA222 Upgraded Realistic Minimus-7 speakers, Lepai 20... 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo Mobile T9900 Dell 0G848F Intel Mobile 4 series 4GB Crucial DDR2-6400 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
OWC Mercury Electra 3G 44GB SSD stock DVD-RW Linux Mint Cinnamon 17.1 "Rebecca" 1366x768 WXGA 
  hide details  
post #747 of 1593
Lol if only some of our younger AMD users saw typical Tbird or Palomino idle temps. How things have changed tongue.gif

That said, those chips didn't see as large of an idle/load delta as we see typically these days.
Main
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670K @ 4.7Ghz [1.284v] Z87X-UD4H [F7] MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X 2x4GB Samsung MV-3V4G3; 10-10-10-28 @ 2133Mhz [... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB 1x Crucial M500 960GB 1x WD4003FZEX 1x WD30EFRX 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
NH-D14 3x A15s @ 600RPM 2x Phanteks F140SP BBK (front), SFF21E (bottom) Win 10 Pro x64 Catleap 2B @ 119hz +1 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
U3014 eVGA 750G2 Fractal R5 - Blackout Edition MS WMO 1.1a 
Mouse PadAudio
fUnc 1030 Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
Main
(20 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4670K @ 4.7Ghz [1.284v] Z87X-UD4H [F7] MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X 2x4GB Samsung MV-3V4G3; 10-10-10-28 @ 2133Mhz [... 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
1x Samsung 850 Pro 256GB 1x Crucial M500 960GB 1x WD4003FZEX 1x WD30EFRX 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
NH-D14 3x A15s @ 600RPM 2x Phanteks F140SP BBK (front), SFF21E (bottom) Win 10 Pro x64 Catleap 2B @ 119hz +1 
MonitorPowerCaseMouse
U3014 eVGA 750G2 Fractal R5 - Blackout Edition MS WMO 1.1a 
Mouse PadAudio
fUnc 1030 Creative Sound Blaster Z 
  hide details  
post #748 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

Thats also when not considering options such as the X5650, then its a moot point

I tried comparing the 3770k against the 8350 , and simulated 9XXX's , the 9XXX's were shown to perform better at stock speeds in cinebench. A moderator jumped in and said it wasn't fair to compare the FX's to the 3770k because it was old tech. If the 3770K isn't a good comparison, there is no way on god's green earth that comparing a 6 core 12 thread xenon would be considered appropriate. The kicker is, that at stock speeds the FX was shown to score better in Passmark.
For your individual purchasing decisions, sure it can be considered,but unless you buy used, you are going to spend over $1000 just on the chip and motherboard.
Ryzen Shine!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1800X @ 4125mhz 1.432 Volts MSI X370 Titanium   Fury  G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
  hide details  
Ryzen Shine!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1800X @ 4125mhz 1.432 Volts MSI X370 Titanium   Fury  G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
  hide details  
post #749 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I tried comparing the 3770k against the 8350 , and simulated 9XXX's , the 9XXX's were shown to perform better at stock speeds in cinebench. A moderator jumped in and said it wasn't fair to compare the FX's to the 3770k because it was old tech. If the 3770K isn't a good comparison, there is no way on god's green earth that comparing a 6 core 12 thread xenon would be considered appropriate. The kicker is, that at stock speeds the FX was shown to score better in Passmark.
For your individual purchasing decisions, sure it can be considered,but unless you buy used, you are going to spend over $1000 just on the chip and motherboard.
when you simulate do you put the FSB @200 and just use multi? If not it could skew the results. I can't remember seeing you say how.
post #750 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I tried comparing the 3770k against the 8350 , and simulated 9XXX's , the 9XXX's were shown to perform better at stock speeds in cinebench. A moderator jumped in and said it wasn't fair to compare the FX's to the 3770k because it was old tech. If the 3770K isn't a good comparison, there is no way on god's green earth that comparing a 6 core 12 thread xenon would be considered appropriate. The kicker is, that at stock speeds the FX was shown to score better in Passmark.
For your individual purchasing decisions, sure it can be considered,but unless you buy used, you are going to spend over $1000 just on the chip and motherboard.
when you simulate do you put the FSB @200 and just use multi? If not it could skew the results. I can't remember seeing you say how.

I did straight multi, max turbo speeds for all involved.
Ryzen Shine!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1800X @ 4125mhz 1.432 Volts MSI X370 Titanium   Fury  G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
  hide details  
Ryzen Shine!
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 1800X @ 4125mhz 1.432 Volts MSI X370 Titanium   Fury  G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 850 pro Hp 1260 I liquid unobtanium Koolance 480mm radiator, 39... Win 7 HP/Winspy 10 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
24" hp @ 1900x1200 Logitech G19 PC power and cooling 910 watt silencer Thermaltake P5 
MouseMouse Pad
Logitech MX 518 fUnc industries 
  hide details  
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AMD CPUs
This thread is locked  
Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end?