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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 88  

post #871 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

Until it hits the shelves, I can care less to be frank lol

I'll be interested when it does, and it would make for a fun toy to play with
I get that. I like the possibilities and the fact that this is the first real innovation in PC in a decade or more. AVX and other code, well are intriguing in moving forward but not real new. This HSA changes everything. I can think of nothing else that take a low-mid chip and make it out perform a top end chip. That is a lot of power that frees up the hardware, which is quickly hitting walls as far as moving forward, and allowing software for once to make some strides forward. You know, instead of lagging a decade behind and letting hardware grunt thru.

I'll start caring when the CPUs are on store shelves and perform as advertised thumb.gif

Until then, it's only talk.
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post #872 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by imran27 View Post

First of all I would request people here to read up on HSA at-least on AMD's website. We should know that HSA, as of now, is only meant to be used in conjunction with APU's iGPU, there is no dGPU support in HSA as of now. AMD will probably need some more innovation to bring HSA to dGPU+CPU systems, like I said earlier a DDR4 quad-channel IMC or a GDDR5 sideport RAM on MoBo could help, Idk which is a wiser solutions.

DDR3 1600 Dual Channel is 25.6GB/s theoretical bandwidth.

PCI-e 3.0 x16 is just under 16GB/s theoretical bandwidth.

Memory is not the concern with the GPU using system ram. Or at least it isn't the biggest one.
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post #873 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

DDR3 1600 Dual Channel is 25.6GB/s theoretical bandwidth.

PCI-e 3.0 x16 is just under 16GB/s theoretical bandwidth.

Memory is not the concern with the GPU using system ram. Or at least it isn't the biggest one.

Yeah, too bad that theoretical and practical speeds can differ a lot due to "other" factors.

The typical DDR3 1600 speed being around 20% slower in practice is quite a hit.

With PCIe things are even worse. Depending on the implementation the latency can skyrocket.

It's quite bad... but as noted, it's not even the biggest issue. All the speed in the world is worthless if the silicone can't render fast enough.
post #874 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

First that review with the 5770 was with the i5-2500k, wait there is more. Skyrim uses X87 instruction set code and Intel owns that, wait there is more. AMD no longer supports X87 code in its chips since bulldozer, wait there is more. So one must use the Bulldozer Conditioner by Stilt ( thanx Stilt ), wait there is more. I just reinstalled Skyrim, actually reinstalled Windows7, so Skyrim reinstall was a must, wait there is more. Started Skyrim up with a ton of mods and a few that didn't play well with the others, which unfortunately caused lower than normal framerates, but for this point makes a very good example, and you guessed it: There is more. Was getting 25FPS before and 55FPS (vsync enabled) after using the conditioner. OMG that is amazing. Imagine what the 7850K might do.
I saw the ridiculous Skyrim argument last night and just didn't feel like responding to it.

Skyrim will actually perform better on an older AMD chip than it will on an FX without the patches, for this very reason. An FX can still execute x87 code, but it does so using the ALU; the same way a 486SX with no x87 FPU had to do the job 20 years ago. AMD got rid of the x87 decode units because there is no reason to code in x87 anymore; you can do the same things with SSE and it's a lot easier and faster.

Unpatched Skyrim benchmarks are a good weapon of choice for any Intel fanboy. They're also completely meaningless. The only thing I've ever wondered about is what in the world possessed the Skyrim devs to write the floating-point routines using 38-year-old coding techniques in the first place?
     
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post #875 of 1593
Quote:
The only thing I've ever wondered about is what in the world possessed the Skyrim devs to write the floating-point routines using 38-year-old coding techniques in the first place?

60 year old programmers. Old habits are hard to break. tongue.giftongue.gif
    
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post #876 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

An FX can still execute x87 code, but it does so using the ALU

No. Just no. An ALU, by design, is incapable of executing x87 code.

Now, I don't know if new windows versions can emulate an fpu if one is not found (linux can be made to), or if the game can emulate fp instructions internally, but even if something like that was possible, it's not the case here.
Emulating an fpu on an integer unit is expensive. I don't mean that like being 2 times slower or something, the speed will be about 10 times lower for simple calculations and as high as 100 times lower for complicated ones (modern games fall to the second category). Doing something like that is just not applicable.

The said patch probably just uses more modern FPU instructions in place of the x87 set to make things faster. There's simply no other option available.

FPUs are there on modern processors for a reason. You just can't take them out and expect everything to run at 100fps. The likes of hash calculations and zlib won't be affected, everything else would run as fast as it would on a Pentium 2 (a Pentium 2 using its FPU).
post #877 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

No. Just no. An ALU, by design, is incapable of executing x87 code.

Now, I don't know if new windows versions can emulate an fpu if one is not found (linux can be made to), or if the game can emulate fp instructions internally, but even if something like that was possible, it's not the case here.
Emulating an fpu on an integer unit is expensive. I don't mean that like being 2 times slower or something, the speed will be about 10 times lower for simple calculations and as high as 100 times lower for complicated ones (modern games fall to the second category). Doing something like that is just not applicable.

The said patch probably just uses more modern FPU instructions in place of the x87 set to make things faster. There's simply no other option available.

FPUs are there on modern processors for a reason. You just can't take them out and expect everything to run at 100fps. The likes of hash calculations and zlib won't be affected, everything else would run as fast as it would on a Pentium 2 (a Pentium 2 using its FPU).
Can only give what I took from the release, but what I gathered is the X87 is Blocked: listed as NRAC blocking in the program and you disable it. Some others said it was because AMD no longer wanted to pay for it, X87 that is, and hence the blocking. As far as the codeing others said that sse2 or other code was running the code in like legacy and having to convert the original and hence the reduced speed on AMD. Some of the code was updated to sse2 or something newer in an update but a lot of the X87 code still exists, so it isn't as bad as 2 years ago or more.
post #878 of 1593
Well, if that's true with the processor missing the x87 set and emulating it using other instructions, a decrease in speed is expected.

Notice here how SSE2 and x87 both are fpu oriented instruction sets. Essentially you get a decrease in speed cause you're emulating an fpu on an fpu... the same fpu.

What the heck AMD. xD
post #879 of 1593
Skyrim was never written for pc. Its a console port that was written for ps3. Hence the crap coding.
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post #880 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

Skyrim was never written for pc. Its a console port that was written for ps3. Hence the crap coding.

Yes it was, it simply was a lazy job. You can't just slap code for a specific powerpc machine on PC, they had to rewrite it for X86 and DirectX...
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