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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 89  

post #881 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfTots View Post

Yes it was, it simply was a lazy job. You can't just slap code for a specific powerpc machine on PC, they had to rewrite it for X86 and DirectX...
That process is called porting. It was a ps3 game. It was ported to pc. This is a poorly optimizied port as you said. The code was modded for pc. Not designed for it.

Skyrim might be one the of worst modern ports as far as optimization goes.
Edited by Wirerat - 3/27/14 at 9:39am
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post #882 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

That process is called porting. It was a ps3 game. It was ported to pc. Just many other titles are ported. This is a poorly optimizied port. The code was modded for pc. Not designed for it.

Skyrim might be one of worst modern ports as far as optimization goes.

I know what porting is, and I don't want to argue. But to metal code for the PS3 isnt simply "modified" for DirectX. The mechanics and assets are the same, but most of the code has to be completely reworked.
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post #883 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fear of Oneself View Post

What is the OP doing on his PC?

This video and bench just seems like total BS to me.

2:00
He says the Intel CPUs only have one large pool of L3 cache when that's not true. They also have 256KB of L2 cache for each core, while the AMD has 2MB of L2 for each two cores. How much the L2 matters, I do not know, but saying the Intels only have L3 is just incorrect. The AMD also only has "one large pool of L3 Cache".. /facepalm

The benchmark scores are also pretty horrible in general for CPU testing. Most games are well below 40FPS which I assume was the average, not MinFPS.. so he's basically benching the GPU, not the CPU specifically. If it were strictly CPU benching, 1440p/1080p/720p/1600x900 wouldn't make a difference and wouldn't need to be changed around.

I'm willing to bet he also had the PhysX set to CPU for those PhysX enabled games, lol. That explains the crap 12 FPS in Metro.

Sure, the 8350 can easily beat an i5 in lots of tasks, but he did this so wrong.
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post #884 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow11377 View Post

This video and bench just seems like total BS to me.

2:00
He says the Intel CPUs only have one large pool of L3 cache when that's not true. They also have 256KB of L2 cache for each core, while the AMD has 2MB of L2 for each two cores. How much the L2 matters, I do not know, but saying the Intels only have L3 is just incorrect. The AMD also only has "one large pool of L3 Cache".. /facepalm

The benchmark scores are also pretty horrible in general for CPU testing. Most games are well below 40FPS which I assume was the average, not MinFPS.. so he's basically benching the GPU, not the CPU specifically. If it were strictly CPU benching, 1440p/1080p/720p/1600x900 wouldn't make a difference and wouldn't need to be changed around.

I'm willing to bet he also had the PhysX set to CPU for those PhysX enabled games, lol. That explains the crap 12 FPS in Metro.

Sure, the 8350 can easily beat an i5 in lots of tasks, but he did this so wrong.
hes also running a 7870. That tells me he was gpu bound the whole time. Why would you test cpu gaming bench with such a weak gpu? If he used a 7970 or above it would have been a huge delta.
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post #885 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

hes also running a 7870. That tells me he was gpu bound the whole time. Why would you test cpu gaming bench with such a weak gpu? If he used a 7970 or above it would have been a huge delta.

Even with a 7970, some of those games don't run that well on single cards at medium settings.
To bench $200 - $300 CPUs and not go with Crossfire/SLI to rule out GPU bottlenecks just seems incredibly dumb to me.
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post #886 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

No. Just no. An ALU, by design, is incapable of executing x87 code.
OK then, it emulates it. Obviously, it doesn't have the registers to directly execute x87 code; that's why we used to have separate x87 FPU chips before the 486DX integrated it. But it can be used. Integer units have been used to provide x87 functionality (at a cost in performance) ever since the 8086 and 8088.

The point is, Skyrim runs like crap on an FX processor unless you use a software patch to work around the x87 issue.
Quote:
Skyrim was never written for pc. Its a console port that was written for ps3. Hence the crap coding.
Not an excuse. There are lots of console ports that aren't written in a way as to make them heavily dependent on a 38-year-old instruction set that's been totally deprecated and superseded by advanced technology. Would you defend a developer if they wrote software using assembler tools that targeted Windows 98, and therefore failed to make use of more than 512MB of RAM or any instruction set newer than MMX? This is basically the same thing, only targeting ancient hardware instead of software.
     
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post #887 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

OK then, it emulates it. Obviously, it doesn't have the registers to directly execute x87 code; that's why we used to have separate x87 FPU chips before the 486DX integrated it. But it can be used. Integer units have been used to provide x87 functionality (at a cost in performance) ever since the 8086 and 8088

Again no. MMX support is there, so the registers are there.

The said "functionality" on pre-x87 processors was always-minus-one just the software having look-up tables of the relative results. No related calculations happened unless you made one very specific kind of application. The kind that the only thing it does is mathematical calculations. Those processors were too slow to do floats on their ALUs while doing anything else at the same time.

It's not even funny. What is now considered as a superseded crappy instruction set was the base of whatever makes complicated 3d graphics, physics and the likes possible at reasonable speeds nowadays.
post #888 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

Those processors were too slow to do floats on their ALUs while doing anything else at the same time.
Certainly. I'm quite old enough to remember how much better a 386 worked once you installed a 387, or if you put in a Cyrix FasMath in place of the Intel i387.

It didn't stop people from trying to "get by" without the FPU chip installed, though.
Quote:
It's not even funny. What is now considered as a superseded crappy instruction set was the base of whatever makes complicated 3d graphics, physics and the likes possible at reasonable speeds nowadays.
True also. But the key word in that is "was."
     
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post #889 of 1593
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

DDR3 1600 Dual Channel is 25.6GB/s theoretical bandwidth.

PCI-e 3.0 x16 is just under 16GB/s theoretical bandwidth.

Memory is not the concern with the GPU using system ram. Or at least it isn't the biggest one.

The PCI bus serves a completely different purpose than memory, so the two really aren't comparable.

As always, GPU's will need far more internal memory bandwidth, than they will PCI bandwidth.

It isn't like high bandwidth memory is a necessity due to PCI limitations, therefore unnecessary in APU's. In reality, there aren't any PCI limitations other than in the upper most tier of videocard performance.

And keep in mind, if a CPU and GPU share the same memory, that memory bandwidth is effectively halved between them in an APU system. so even in your post, at best you'd be seeing more like 12GB/s in bandwidth......and probably much less.
Edited by AMDATI - 3/28/14 at 1:00pm
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post #890 of 1593
For those who say AMD CPUs don't bottleneck high-end GPUs at 1080P, how do you explain this?

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Edited by 996gt2 - 3/28/14 at 1:01pm
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