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AMD No longer a viable option for mid-high end? - Page 91  

post #901 of 1593
Yes because most of us are obsessed with performance. People still game on old hardware.

I7-4770k is great, you'll see less problems when the CPU gets taxed. But sometimes the cost can't be justified.

E.g. I am not going to pay that just to game on. So it wouldn't be a wise investment for me.


You need other tasks to suit whether a chip is good for you or not. There are a lot of factors in play, budget, current situation, cooling, heat, noise, energy bills and even personal preference. There's no denying Intel chips do offer better performance but then you can't deny an AMD part cannot drive games either.


Like you'd be mad to buy a FX when you want to run a strategy game, but then you'd be mad not to even consider a FX part if you want to run a FPS.

AMD's single threaded performance is the let down. But it all depends on how you use your computer and all above factors.


You still get a smooth experience on AMD's side, and so you do on Intel's side.
post #902 of 1593
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

Yes because most of us are obsessed with performance. People still game on old hardware.

I7-4770k is great, you'll see less problems when the CPU gets taxed. But sometimes the cost can't be justified.

E.g. I am not going to pay that just to game on. So it wouldn't be a wise investment for me.


You need other tasks to suit whether a chip is good for you or not. There are a lot of factors in play, budget, current situation, cooling, heat, noise, energy bills and even personal preference. There's no denying Intel chips do offer better performance but then you can't deny an AMD part cannot drive games either.


Like you'd be mad to buy a FX when you want to run a strategy game, but then you'd be mad not to even consider a FX part if you want to run a FPS.

AMD's single threaded performance is the let down. But it all depends on how you use your computer and all above factors.


You still get a smooth experience on AMD's side, and so you do on Intel's side.


The cost is more than justified.....probably at least, 2 years more in longevity, around 30% more performance on average (up to 60%), 20% more FPS, much lower power consumption......almost all of these examples individually is more than worth a 30% price difference.

I think this AMD/INTEL argument actually goes deeper than just CPU's, it says a lot about a persons financial maturity.

Sometimes paying less now, can actually cost you more in the long run. Or alternatively, Sometimes paying more now, can cost you less in the long run.
Edited by AMDATI - 3/28/14 at 2:20pm
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post #903 of 1593
If you are building a pc and running anything above a r9 280x or gtx 760 theres no need to buy a AMD cpu because than your budget will be big enough to spend 20 dollars extra on a i5 4670k or a used i5/i7 from sandy or ivy generation, which will be superior overall. I agree that now days, its mostly software holding us back. Hell there are many games out there that benefit little from a top of the line new system and a older one. I still think intel is the way to go for the future. Name one AMD cpu that is still as strong as the i5 2500k (3 years) or the x56xx (5+ years old). Only sad part with AMDs underperformance is that intel now can charge even more money for their cpus and even used intel chips will be more expensive, as we have seen the last 6 months. And even if you would have less money trying to build a system, theres enough time to still pick up those old i5 from sandy generation smile.gif. But be quick, we have alreaddy seen a price increase by 100% for those old x58 stuff like motherboard and those old rusty server cpus, expect those old i5 and i7 will rise in price when people find out that you can OC them to above or equal haswell and next generation intel cpu performance. People want good performance for spent money and no way any "game suitable" AMD cpu does that. Compare the fx 8150 with the i5 2500k for example, which is stronger in games today? Compare the old phenom II 965 with the x56xx cpus and tell me which one has best performance, I mean they are both 5 years old right? Which one would you buy used for a 2014 build?

Also, hope not intel read this thread, otherwise they will increase prices even more.

Edit: some people speak about strategy games? Few of them are optimized good enough to even take advantage of the hardware, let alone do they support multicore so that comment is invalid. Im safe to day that some intel with less cores perform better in multicore games and apps than "plenty-core" AMD, why? Maybe the particular design of the cpu is important, not just the amount of cores. This is why even the old intel xeon 4 and 6 core cpus from the x58 generation, once clocked match the new i5 and i7 cpus in game performance. CPU design...nuff said. I love AMD, but only their gpus. Just like I love hugo boss...for their clothes and not for their watches.
Edited by PachAz - 3/28/14 at 2:25pm
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post #904 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

The cost is more than justified.....probably at least, 2 years more in longevity. Around 30% more performance on average, up to 60%, 20% more FPS, much lower power consumption......all of these examples individually is more than worth a 30% price difference.
you may want to stop now. OMW home, and when I get there, oh boy FIELD DAY!!!
post #905 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

The cost is more than justified.....probably at least, 2 years more in longevity. Around 30% more performance on average, up to 60%, 20% more FPS, much lower power consumption......all of these examples individually is more than worth a 30% price difference.

Yes but a FX-8320 will last 2 years in longevity too. Seen as multi-threading is becoming more popular it's a safe choice.

Yes it has better performance but it completely depends on will you use that performance? It really completely depends on the application smile.gif

Both are great for different reasons. They both perform good for a modern day processor.

Both have shoddy processors too on the low-end biggrin.gif You can't touch Intel's higher end though, socket 2011 stuff such as their hex cores. AMD have nothing really to compete there.
post #906 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMDATI View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane569 View Post

Implying that software and games will/won't need stronger CPUs in the future.

If you ask me, Technology is nearing its hardware limits. We can see this with the software optimizations being released. Mantle pulls even more out of old tech than we could have thought of a year ago. Windows 8 and Linux gets better performance.
I think the 4770k if not all 4th gen i7 and i5 CPUs will be around for awhile. Only thing that can be changed (IMO) is power consumption and TDP.

No it just implies that the 4770K will be able to keep up farther into the future, reducing time between upgrades and delivering overall greater performance the whole time.

The problem for AMD is that Intel already has TDP/Power Consumption heavily in its favor, so once AMD gets around to it, Intel will be even further along. Once AMD comes out with say 22nm chips, Intel will already be operating on something like 18 or 12nm, with even more IPC improvements than now.

We definitely do need to move off of silicon though. I'd rather see an era of 10Ghz quad cores than 4Ghz octa cores. We're actually still only on silicon because the raw materials are soo cheap and abundant, they wouldn't want to cut into their profit margins. The amount of silicon that makes a hundred chips, is probably worth a dollar or less.
The fact that games in the future will be more dependant on threads seems to allude you. And AMD has very good multi threaded performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt
There's also the issue of FX being a dead-end setup. There's no upgrade path in the future after AMD's withdraw from the high end market.

Just because AMD has not showed anything on their road map that shows anything in the high performance market does not mean that can not change. AMD has a habit of testing out new processes on their APU's before they head into production in other places. Besides I do not think AMD will stop producing Opteron. And FX's were just Opterons cut in half. And if AM3+ is a dead platform I am sure it is easy enough to transplant a "THEORETICAL" Steamroller FX onto FM sockets. The point is only employees of AMD know what is happening. So don't claim to own a crystal ball. If you do actually happen to own a crystal ball please tell me when my water blocks will arrive cause I been waiting AGES! rolleyes.gif
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post #907 of 1593
I think most of us want AMD to keep hush hush and then suddenly release a new processor rolleyes.gif one can hope
post #908 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

I think most of us want AMD to keep hush hush and then suddenly release a new processor rolleyes.gif one can hope
To be honest I think AMD is going to sit on FX-83XX and 9XXX for a while because they know its popular to a lot of people. You probably find that AMD won't release another high end consumer processor until DDR4 goes mainstream in about 2015 (agrees with current road map) It will also give them a fair bit of time to nail down the next architecture.
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post #909 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

I think most of us want AMD to keep hush hush and then suddenly release a new processor rolleyes.gif one can hope

Intel's R&D Budget last year (Just R&D, nothing else): $ 10 billion
http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-ranks-second-as-top-rd-spender-intel-and-microsoft-close-by/

AMD's total revenue last year: $ 5.5 billion
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/press-release-2014jan21.aspx

So take the entire amount that AMD made last year from every product they sold across all categories, then double it, and that's Intel's research and development spending.

So, AMD keeping hush hush and suddenly releasing a new processor that's actually competitive with Intel at the >$200 price point? Zero chance, sorry.
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post #910 of 1593
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeo01 View Post

I think most of us want AMD to keep hush hush and then suddenly release a new processor rolleyes.gif one can hope

Intel's R&D Budget last year (Just R&D, nothing else): $ 10 billion
http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-ranks-second-as-top-rd-spender-intel-and-microsoft-close-by/

AMD's total revenue last year: $ 5.5 billion
http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/press-release-2014jan21.aspx

So take the entire amount that AMD made last year from every product they sold across all categories, then double it, and that's Intel's research and development spending.

So, AMD keeping hush hush and suddenly releasing a new processor that's actually competitive with Intel at the >$200 price point? Zero chance, sorry.
Yeah. Now imagine AMD on Intel R&D, WITHOUT Intel being any lower. So both companies =. I could personally see AMD trouncing Wintel. But in another life.
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AMD FX-8370 @ 4.95GHz 1.5V 2700MHz NB/3000MHz HTT ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 2x Sapphire R9-Fury 3840 Corsair Vengeance 2133 4x4GB @ 2000 9-9-10-27 1CR 
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Samsung 850 PRO 1TB WD Blue 500GB WD Blue 1 TB Samsung Spinpoint HD502HI 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC D5 Bay Res 3x CoolerMaster Storm Force 200's 2x EK-FC Fury X fullcovers EK-FC Terminal Dual Parallel 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x EK-FC Fury X Backplates XSPC Raystorm CPU Block EKWB Coolstream CE280 EKWB Coolstream PE360 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
3x CoolerMaster Jetflo's 120mm 6 Corsair ML140's  Laing D5 Vario Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG E2341V Roccat Ryos MK Pro Antec High Current Pro Platinum 1300W NZXT Phantom 820 Black 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Mionix Naos 7000 Mionix Alioth GX Gaming SW-G2.1 3000 Kingston Hyper X Cloud Core 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Athlon 2 X4 645 MSI 990FXA-GD65 2x ATI 5770 1GB  Corsair Vengeance LP 8Gb (4Gb X2) 1640Mhz 9-8-7... 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Samsung HD502HI and Samsung HD502IJ LG DVD-RW CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO Windows 7 home premium 64bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG E2341V Microsoft Wired 600 FSP ATX 700-82GHN Aerocool PGS-V series VX-9 Pro Battle Edition 
MouseAudio
Verbatim Rapier V2 Creative SBS 370 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Celeron G1840 MSI Z97-Guard Pro Gigabyte RX580 Gaming 4G Gigabyte RX570 Gaming 4G 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsRAM
XFX RX480 reference edition 8G Gigabyte RX570 Gaming 4g Gigabyte RX570 Gaming 4G G-Skill Ares F3-1600C9D 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung 750 Evo 120GB Stock  Windows 10 Pro  Gigabyte XP1200M 
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