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[New York Times] The Brain’s Inner Language - Page 2

post #11 of 29
The fun begins when we start trying to alter how the brain works based on this information.
     
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post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a nickname View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

i find this kind of science a little de humanising and ultimately fairly pointless.

its not to do with medicine before anyone jumps in.

In the end, we're just particles. Self-conscious particles. Crazy, right? Now let's try to find out why! I just hope this knowledge won't be put for bad use, like controlling the human being further (I can still dream).

I think that's exactly what the first comment (not OP) was trying to get across. Without checks and balances the mindset of "people are nothing more than re-arranged particles" can turn people into monsters just as quickly as anything.
No one will ever approve of being treated like dirt.

I do think brain research is highly valuable, the more we know about that mechanism the better able we are to cope with being forced to use one.
post #13 of 29
Dehumanizing?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Why realizing that a body made of particles that were born when massive stars exploded from each end of the universe, only to start self-organizing by the trillions into a weird self-replicating machine that seems to defy/slow down the rate of entropy that turns the rest of the universe to dust, which ends up to self-replicating and re-organizing itself to form walking, swimming or even flying "colonies" that compete to pass down their own unique "particle combination" to little copy colonies of themselves,

One colony, infused with a simple mission, a simple purpose, finite as an organization, but made up of trillions of timeless pieces, manages to look into itself and make up stories to keep it engaged in those fractions of time the insignificant for the rest of the universe, little personal singularity of your life.

What is dehumanizing in this mind-boggling observation (cause we are talking facts more or less)?
What takes away of our life? What takes away from our compassion, if we realize that the singularity of our brain synapses is one off, instead of a mass-produced clay body infused with ready made souls?

Sure, we are "just" trillions of molecules shaped into a walking tall ape that wants to find out what makes us tick, instead of just buying the ready made nonsense of people that were too proud or too power-hungry to ever admit that they did not know what was going on.

Yes, we feel insecure not knowing.
Yes, some prefer being lied, as long as they don't get there.
Yes, we are too self-important and we want to be able to live forever.

Too bad.
Cause science is not dehumanizing us. Maybe it is "de-glorifying us" by reducing magical woo-woo, to math.
Making us less of the self-important "god" that we hope ourselves to be, that we are REALLY no better than the rest of the apes around us.
Those flying too high, will crash harder with a reality check. It's fine.

Checks and bounds will be there. Of same origin as those seen in the animal kingdom, and before the invention of the concept of sin and eternal torment.
Augmented by the trillions of synapses in our finite, yet more complex than yet imaginable brains, which work together to extend us past our inevitable perish.

And these, for once impeccably better informed checks and bounds, is what we leave behind, to make our short personal singularity meaningful past ourselves.
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post #14 of 29
You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.
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post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

I disagree. I consider myself a snowflake. I like snowflakes.
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post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfroth View Post

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.

And what you do or decide not to, barely matters. You're just a cog in the wheel, replaceable in the bigger picture.

Anomie? Nihilism?

Looking for better terms.
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post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveHighDPI View Post

I think that's exactly what the first comment (not OP) was trying to get across. Without checks and balances the mindset of "people are nothing more than re-arranged particles" can turn people into monsters just as quickly as anything.
No one will ever approve of being treated like dirt.

I do think brain research is highly valuable, the more we know about that mechanism the better able we are to cope with being forced to use one.

this. i did exclude medical research. But if you think that's the sole purpose of this then you are extremely naive.
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

i find this kind of science a little de humanising and ultimately fairly pointless.

its not to do with medicine before anyone jumps in.

This is how science works. In order to fix or improve something, you need to understand HOW it works. The study of electricity wasn't for the sole purpose of providing our micro-wave ovens with magic that makes food hot, it was just to wonder "What the heck is that loud light that kills people during storms?"

Think of the implications this could have for FUTURE medicine or tech. If we understand our brains better, computers could theoretically start following a more organic model, making computers hundreds of times more powerful at fractions of the energy use. Having a mouse brain in your home computer would effectively be much more powerful than any quad-sli TITAN machine. (tho... L2N overclocked brains? SWEET!)

Even in the VERY distant future, we can work to improve brain functionality, could be the next step in human evolution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

Dehumanizing?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Why realizing that a body made of particles that were born when massive stars exploded from each end of the universe, only to start self-organizing by the trillions into a weird self-replicating machine that seems to defy/slow down the rate of entropy that turns the rest of the universe to dust, which ends up to self-replicating and re-organizing itself to form walking, swimming or even flying "colonies" that compete to pass down their own unique "particle combination" to little copy colonies of themselves,

One colony, infused with a simple mission, a simple purpose, finite as an organization, but made up of trillions of timeless pieces, manages to look into itself and make up stories to keep it engaged in those fractions of time the insignificant for the rest of the universe, little personal singularity of your life.

What is dehumanizing in this mind-boggling observation (cause we are talking facts more or less)?
What takes away of our life? What takes away from our compassion, if we realize that the singularity of our brain synapses is one off, instead of a mass-produced clay body infused with ready made souls?

Sure, we are "just" trillions of molecules shaped into a walking tall ape that wants to find out what makes us tick, instead of just buying the ready made nonsense of people that were too proud or too power-hungry to ever admit that they did not know what was going on.

Yes, we feel insecure not knowing.
Yes, some prefer being lied, as long as they don't get there.
Yes, we are too self-important and we want to be able to live forever.

Too bad.
Cause science is not dehumanizing us. Maybe it is "de-glorifying us" by reducing magical woo-woo, to math.
Making us less of the self-important "god" that we hope ourselves to be, that we are REALLY no better than the rest of the apes around us.
Those flying too high, will crash harder with a reality check. It's fine.

Checks and bounds will be there. Of same origin as those seen in the animal kingdom, and before the invention of the concept of sin and eternal torment.
Augmented by the trillions of synapses in our finite, yet more complex than yet imaginable brains, which work together to extend us past our inevitable perish.
You put way to much into that comment man... You sound like a spokes-person for the big bang, less like a guy on a forum. Save it for term papers.


As for the actual new article.. is it just me, or does 90% of it just talk about one guys history... and do all it can do to avoid actual substance?
Edited by Bridden - 3/3/14 at 4:42am
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

i find this kind of science a little de humanising and ultimately fairly pointless.

I couldn't possibly have a more diametrically opposed opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

But if you think that's the sole purpose of this then you are extremely naive.

There is no telling what the eventual implications and applications of such research will be, but it sure won't be pointless. I can't think of any bit of knowledge that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridden View Post

Even in the VERY distant future, we can work to improve brain functionality, could be the next step in human evolution.

I think this sort of thing will come sooner, not later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridden View Post

is it just me, or does 90% of it just talk about one guys history... and do all it can do to avoid actual substance?

This is what mainstream journalism does to scientific topics. Most people couldn't care less about, or understand, the details.
Edited by Blameless - 3/3/14 at 8:00am
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post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridden View Post

Even in the VERY distant future, we can work to improve brain functionality, could be the next step in human evolution.

I think this sort of thing will come sooner, not later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

is it just me, or does 90% of it just talk about one guys history... and do all it can do to avoid actual substance?

This is what mainstream journalism does to scientific topics. Most people couldn't care less about, or understand, the details.

You really think so? I would love to see that kind of thing come withing my (natural) lifetime. They are probably already going to cure age before I die, if they manage to augment brain function artificially by time I'm 80-90, I'll eat my hat.

And yeah, I understand journalism doing it... but most of them cover the history a bit, not talk about every move one guy has made his entire career. Just off-putting.

Oh, side-note, got the wrong names as quotes.
Edited by Bridden - 3/3/14 at 6:20am
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