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[New York Times] The Brain’s Inner Language - Page 3

post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukkooh View Post

The fun begins when we start trying to alter how the brain works based on this information.

Did you read the article? It only outlines the goals of the research...
Quote:
All research is a gamble, of course, and the Allen Institute’s collaborative approach, while gaining popularity in neuroscience, is not universally popular. Dr. Wiesel said it was “an important approach” that would “provide a lot of useful information.” But, he added, “it won’t necessarily create breakthroughs in our understanding of how the brain works.

I guess jumping the gun is commonplace here at OCN thumb.gif
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post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukkooh View Post

The fun begins when we start trying to alter how the brain works based on this information.

Did you read the article? It only outlines the goals of the research...
Quote:
All research is a gamble, of course, and the Allen Institute’s collaborative approach, while gaining popularity in neuroscience, is not universally popular. Dr. Wiesel said it was “an important approach” that would “provide a lot of useful information.” But, he added, “it won’t necessarily create breakthroughs in our understanding of how the brain works.

I guess jumping the gun is commonplace here at OCN thumb.gif

We are a tech. site, yeah, we have a tenancy get excited and jump the gun.

But this may not CREATE breakthroughs, we are excited about the research in general. Sure, this may just help us understand the brain a bit more, but the research will make waves.
Quote:
“I think the main advances are going to be made by individual scientists working in small groups,” he said.
This new understanding/research could result in other groups making profound discoveries. With how little we ACTUALLY know about how the brain works, this is great news.
post #23 of 29
This is a good place to drop this line:

“If our brains were simple enough for us to understand them, we'd be so simple that we couldn't.” - Ian Stewart.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoRad View Post

This is a good place to drop this line:

“If our brains were simple enough for us to understand them, we'd be so simple that we couldn't.” - Ian Stewart.

True in so many ways, but that's why it takes science to create a system, a framework, a method to break down complex problems into simpler ones.
It's not a feat for a single mind to undertake.

Sometimes we fail to understand how much different complexity is from perplexity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridden View Post

You really think so? I would love to see that kind of thing come withing my (natural) lifetime. They are probably already going to cure age before I die, if they manage to augment brain function artificially by time I'm 80-90, I'll eat my hat.

Oh, the self importance again...
Me with my "out-of-place" rants, all of us with extending our physical self... rolleyes.gif

Think we should "cure" self importance and improve ourselves before "curing" age.
We have imaginary timeless boogie-men that threaten to punish us after our physical life, can't we at least keep the physical dictators (that are frighten-gly more real when pushing us around) mortal?
Thanks biggrin.gif
Edited by pcfoo - 3/3/14 at 8:01am
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post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by XenoRad View Post

This is a good place to drop this line:

“If our brains were simple enough for us to understand them, we'd be so simple that we couldn't.” - Ian Stewart.

True in so many ways, but that's why it takes science to create a system, a framework, a method to break down complex problems into simpler ones.
It's not a feat for a single mind to undertake.

Sometimes we fail to understand how much different complexity is from perplexity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridden View Post

You really think so? I would love to see that kind of thing come withing my (natural) lifetime. They are probably already going to cure age before I die, if they manage to augment brain function artificially by time I'm 80-90, I'll eat my hat.

Oh, the self importance again...
Me with my "out-of-place" rants, all of us with extending our physical self... rolleyes.gif

Think we should "cure" self importance and improve ourselves before "curing" age.
We have imaginary timeless boogie-men that threaten to punish us after our physical life, can't we at least keep the physical dictators (that are frighten-gly more real when pushing us around) mortal?
Thanks biggrin.gif

I agree with you about self-importance... but what does that have to do with anything? (I guess the out of place rants thing you brought up?)
This isn't about self-importance, it is about self-preservation, what all evolutionary theory and basic instinct is based on, of course it is something that we crave.
post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

i find this kind of science a little de humanising and ultimately fairly pointless.

its not to do with medicine before anyone jumps in.

Even if this is seemingly pointless, they might stumble across something given that they are going into new territory.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridden View Post

But this may not CREATE breakthroughs, we are excited about the research in general. Sure, this may just help us understand the brain a bit more, but the research will make waves.
This new understanding/research could result in other groups making profound discoveries. With how little we ACTUALLY know about how the brain works, this is great news.

Judging by how society has evolved over the last 50 years by exploiting the research findings of psychological studies, one can only imagine what form of control can be realized by the leading class with new found knowledge of human cognition...
Edited by Slomo4shO - 3/3/14 at 3:33pm
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post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Judging by how society has evolved over the last 50 years by exploiting the research findings of psychological studies, one can only imagine what imagine what form of control can be realized by the leading class with new found knowledge of human cognition...

This is what scares me. We've got computers that can solve very complex equations and algorithms in nanoseconds, but yet we ourselves do not know what makes our brains tick. Once we understand what makes our brains work, then the scary part happens: manipulation of that knowledge.

You just think we have some magical technology now... just wait until we understand how our minds work.

Also, at that point, we basically get a concept similar to how you can build a simple computer in Minecraft. Our mind understands how our mind works... sort of scary if you think about it.
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post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo4shO View Post

Judging by how society has evolved over the last 50 years by exploiting the research findings of psychological studies, one can only imagine what imagine what form of control can be realized by the leading class with new found knowledge of human cognition...

This is what scares me. We've got computers that can solve very complex equations and algorithms in nanoseconds, but yet we ourselves do not know what makes our brains tick. Once we understand what makes our brains work, then the scary part happens: manipulation of that knowledge.

You just think we have some magical technology now... just wait until we understand how our minds work.

Also, at that point, we basically get a concept similar to how you can build a simple computer in Minecraft. Our mind understands how our mind works... sort of scary if you think about it.

Gödel’s Incompleteness Theorem, my friend.

The 64-bit computers in Minecraft will never come close to the ability of the computer running it, for SO MANY different reasons, much less understand it. The 'very complex equations' you talk about are actually very simple, seeing as a computer is designed to work that way, while our brains process unfathomable amounts of data, just while looking at the same equation on paper, information that a computer wont understand for years to come. One day we will understand how the brain works, but it will take the collaboration of many MANY groups of people, and eventually, cognitive ability will be given to computers, but they will be nothing like what the computers of today are like. It will be a beautiful day, but like you said... can be very scary, but we can't be afraid to do it.
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