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Help with GTX 770 Lightning! - Page 4

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkoTheCommi View Post

I did the test where I disable the dedicated graphics card and run it on the iGPU. It started out fine on low settings and then 3/4 of the way through, it experienced a driver crash. Not Unigine encountering a problem, an actual crash of the video card.

After trying that, I re-enabled my Lightning and tried out Unigine Heaven, stock settings, and Heaven on Ultra, 8xAA, Extreme Tesselation. It loaded, which doesn't always happen. It even ran for a full two loops. I did notice a lot of undesirable effects while watching these two loops. Things like tearing, stutter, lag, transitions between scenes taking a long time, and sweeping camera angles that were not smooth. There is also a blue flag against the sky in one scene and there was a trail of blue behind the flag that I don't think was programmed in. But it ran, and at good temps, less than 70C. Are these undesirable effects a result of a bad card, or I put the settings too high and the GTX 770 Lightning simply can't handle Unigine cranked up that high?

After two loops in Heaven, I decided to try Valley. Valley seemed to load and work much better, I wasn't experiencing such bad irregularities like in Heaven, but the temperatures were reaching up to 72C. I did a full two loops in Valley.

I wanted to be sure that this working wasn't a fluke, so I booted up Heaven again. It ran for about 1/4 of a loop and then I experienced the same crash that had always been happening.


I am as stumped as ever. I wish that guy who had the same problem would reply back so I can talk with him.

The PSU load test was done with Kombustor+Prime95 at the same time, the GPU usage will be erratic like you experienced because the CPU is busy feeding Prime95, but it delivers a good load accross the board and if the system ran fine without hangs I would assume the PSU did its job.
The iGPU driver crashing points out to it being software related, the Uningine benchmark showing artifacts and wrong textures can be caused by a bad installation(of Heaven) or a corrupted driver.
I expected the iGPU to reach it to the end, on the lowest available settings. But the driver crashing only makes the data you gathered confusing, if the iGPU didn't crash I would clearly point out that the dGPU is most likely having an issue, but since it crashed I can't put my finger on the GTX770 because the iGPU also presented problems.
I can now only point out to software, so I would kindly ask you to create a smaller partition in your 2Tb HDD with like 50Gb, put windows 7 there and retry these tests.
(Assuming that you haven't tried a clean installation during all these issues)

On a side note:
Did Valley run withour artifacts?
Do other benchmarks run without artifacts/crashing? Is your GTX770/system score on par with what the scores should be?
Did valley run with these problems too or it ran normal?

Everything together, what you said in your 1st post about what you have already done and your experiences with the card + the tests you did for me, it points out to software.
The PSU handled the load, the iGPU crashed.

Edit: With all these I am assuming you have DirectX updated+.Net framework updated and all the things required to run games updated.
Edited by Tokkan - 3/2/14 at 3:22am
post #32 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post

The PSU load test was done with Kombustor+Prime95 at the same time, the GPU usage will be erratic like you experienced because the CPU is busy feeding Prime95, but it delivers a good load accross the board and if the system ran fine without hangs I would assume the PSU did its job.
The iGPU driver crashing points out to it being software related, the Uningine benchmark showing artifacts and wrong textures can be caused by a bad installation(of Heaven) or a corrupted driver.
I expected the iGPU to reach it to the end, on the lowest available settings. But the driver crashing only makes the data you gathered confusing, if the iGPU didn't crash I would clearly point out that the dGPU is most likely having an issue, but since it crashed I can't put my finger on the GTX770 because the iGPU also presented problems.
I can now only point out to software, so I would kindly ask you to create a smaller partition in your 2Tb HDD with like 50Gb, put windows 7 there and retry these tests.
(Assuming that you haven't tried a clean installation during all these issues)

On a side note:
Did Valley run withour artifacts?
Do other benchmarks run without artifacts/crashing? Is your GTX770/system score on par with what the scores should be?
Did valley run with these problems too or it ran normal?

Everything together, what you said in your 1st post about what you have already done and your experiences with the card + the tests you did for me, it points out to software.
The PSU handled the load, the iGPU crashed.

Edit: With all these I am assuming you have DirectX updated+.Net framework updated and all the things required to run games updated.
I would like to start by thanking you, out of all 200+ people to have read this, you are the most constructive with you guidance and advice.
Everything is up to date, Nvidia drivers, DirectX, Net.Framework, Asus motherboard, etc..

Valley ran incredibly smooth, I saw no blemishes whatsoever while running Valley, whereas in Heaven, they would happen consistently. Valley still has the same crashing issue as Heaven though. It is in the same folder, but different sub sections. It is so strange how varied my results with Heaven/Valley are. Sometimes they wont launch at all, and other times it will run until I stop it and there is in the middle where it will run for awhile and then close. Incredibly odd.
I would get the rare artifact in Assassin's Creed IV at stock settings, and once it did crash altogether in a heated, fast-paced battle.
I'm not sure what you mean by scores matching up? My FPS is in line with others running the same settings on the same card if thats what you mean? I haven't ever run a true benchmark where a score is calculated in Kombustor though, I only ever used it to stress the card.

I think if I mentioned this earlier in my post but I will mention it again. If I switch from Unigine to Kombustor and try to run Kombustor, I will get an actual driver/GPU failure. It recovers, but a failure is a failure. So software issue isn't an entirely clean cut answer, although all signs point to that being the culprit.

I managed to talk to the gentleman who said he had the "exact" same problem with his 770 Lightning. This is what he had to say:

"At first it was great, Heaven, Valley gaming, it was all perfect.

It went straight up to 1241mhz all by itself and was awesome.

Then after three days in, I ran heaven and it crashed back to the desktop with a graphics driver error. Every time I did it. it failed. It wasn't even getting hot since it would fail at random intervals.

I figured it was driver related, so I reinstalled the driver and then reinstalled windows. It still did it. Under clocked it one level and Bam! no problem, it ran like a dream.

I figured since I didn't know if something was failing I would RMA it."


I would have gone ahead and installed Windows 8 on my HDD, but it is the last day for the rebate to be effective for the 780 I have my eye on, so I will go ahead and return this 770 Lightning and purchase the PNY GTX 780 OC XLR8 Enthusiast Edition. It was $449 after rebate just a few days ago, now its back up to $499... trying to troubleshoot this Lightning has cost me $50 when I should have just returned it the moment I encountered irregularities.

I have never changed graphics cards in the manner I am about to do. GTX 770 Lightning to GTX 780... will I need to do anything special before I install the new GPU? Uninstall all of my Nvidia drivers? Flash my BIOS?(no idea how to do that). Or can I just plug it in and go?

Thank you again,@Tokkan you have been a wonderful help. If anyone else is reading this debacle, please give him some positive rep. he deserves it.
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The Peacemaker
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post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkoTheCommi View Post

-snip-
Sometimes I forget that these graphic cards Turbo based on power and temperature.
What you have is a overclock failure, your card seems to be Turboing beyond its reach, which indeed points at a faulty GPU scenario.
Overclocks fail because of several reasons: Voltage, temperature are the main ones.
I have used Uningine to test both my CPU OC's and my GPU OC's because it puts a very consist load to the typical usage scenario I would use my computer in.

You can simply drop the GTX780 without even uninstalling the current Nvidia driver, it should detect the card, install the card on its own and ask for a restart but I would consider wiping the nvidia drivers and installing from root.
I hope that you keep using Overclock.net after all the issues are settled, we are a good community of people that like helping each others, you are most welcome to stay with us.
Oh and all I did was try pointing you in the right direction, wish we had some more time to actually figure out what was wrong in specific.

About the thing you said, being told to wait some days for the system to settle in before starting to play with it, well my opinion is that right after you purchase the card you should test it out extensively to check if it's stable.
That's what I do with all my computers, may them be desktops or laptops. This is good cause I spot issues usually within the 1st week and get it solved easily with the vendor, avoiding having to RMA anything.
1st day of having the GTX780, try running Heaven/valley. Check if they crash etc. If they do crash try getting a GPU-Z reading on voltages and clocks.
I hope all goes well though, good luck mate and stay with us at OCN!
Edited by Tokkan - 3/2/14 at 8:18am
post #34 of 54
Oh my god. GPU-Z perfcapreason! When a Nvidia card turbos it hits a limit. You can get a reading on what the limit is with GPU-Z, if you do happen to have issues like these. Use GPU-Z to know what the card is doing, check the perfcapreason when it stutters/artifacts.
It just happened to me on my laptop while playing a game with it on my lap(GTX765M) I checked GPU-Z for temps at it was reading 98º. So I went into Nvidia inspector and changed temp target to 75º, it solved my problem and then it hit me that it could've helped figure out your problem too.
So there it is, GPU-Z ->Perfcapreason.
Helps understanding whats happening with the GPU.
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post

Sometimes I forget that these graphic cards Turbo based on power and temperature.
What you have is a overclock failure, your card seems to be Turboing beyond its reach, which indeed points at a faulty GPU scenario.
Overclocks fail because of several reasons: Voltage, temperature are the main ones.
I have used Uningine to test both my CPU OC's and my GPU OC's because it puts a very consist load to the typical usage scenario I would use my computer in.

You can simply drop the GTX780 without even uninstalling the current Nvidia driver, it should detect the card, install the card on its own and ask for a restart but I would consider wiping the nvidia drivers and installing from root.
I hope that you keep using Overclock.net after all the issues are settled, we are a good community of people that like helping each others, you are most welcome to stay with us.
Oh and all I did was try pointing you in the right direction, wish we had some more time to actually figure out what was wrong in specific.

About the thing you said, being told to wait some days for the system to settle in before starting to play with it, well my opinion is that right after you purchase the card you should test it out extensively to check if it's stable.
That's what I do with all my computers, may them be desktops or laptops. This is good cause I spot issues usually within the 1st week and get it solved easily with the vendor, avoiding having to RMA anything.
1st day of having the GTX780, try running Heaven/valley. Check if they crash etc. If they do crash try getting a GPU-Z reading on voltages and clocks.
I hope all goes well though, good luck mate and stay with us at OCN!

This. I may not have expressed it very well earlier, but this is what I said. If the card boosts itself into unstable territory without you touching any settings, then it is defective. It's that simple.

Defects can be minor or major, and your decision to live with it or send it back should be based on your subjective willingness to deal with it. If I were you, I'd be sending back a card that 1) boosted to 1241 Mhz on its own accord, and 2) made itself crash in the process.
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post #36 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post

Oh my god. GPU-Z perfcapreason! When a Nvidia card turbos it hits a limit. You can get a reading on what the limit is with GPU-Z, if you do happen to have issues like these. Use GPU-Z to know what the card is doing, check the perfcapreason when it stutters/artifacts.
It just happened to me on my laptop while playing a game with it on my lap(GTX765M) I checked GPU-Z for temps at it was reading 98º. So I went into Nvidia inspector and changed temp target to 75º, it solved my problem and then it hit me that it could've helped figure out your problem too.
So there it is, GPU-Z ->Perfcapreason.
Helps understanding whats happening with the GPU.

I have GPU-Z0.7.7, but I can't find the "perfcapreason"

Anyways, I woke up today and took out my GTX770 Lightning. I closed my rig back up and started her with just the iGPU. I go into Unigine, set it to low and it runs. It runs for as long as I want it to, its crap, but it is running. Next I want to try and see if I can force it to close like it was doing before. I go from Heaven to Valley, back to Heaven, then to Kombustor, nothing. It is running as it should. So we can finally say without a doubt that it was the GTX770 Lightning that was the root of the problem.

I went to TigerDirect and exchanged my 770 for a 780. Instead of paying $10 less and waiting for a week or more to get the PNY 780 from them online, I paid $10 more and got the EVGA GTX 780 SC w/ ACX coolers. I haven't installed it yet as I just got back home. When I finish this response, I will plug er' in and give it a go and come back to you with my results. I will be sure to run Heaven immediately.

I would like to now address those viewers and people that commented who pointed the finger at the CX600M. All of you made unfounded objections based purely on speculation and reputation and didn't provide a way to test if the PSU was the culprit like Tokkan did. The CX600M is not the best for higher end systems. But it is capable! Do not give bad advice regarding this PSU. Tell people that it is not the best, but it is capable. The price and performance of the CX600M is very appealing which is why we see so many. It is not the best, simply the most economical. If someone is doing a new build and wants to get a CX600M, do not deter them unless they are trying to do something like SLI, but for single GPUs, it is capable.

Thank you again to Tokkan, you helped me out tremendously. I will certainly remain active on this forum, I have even done some poking around in others sections. Now, it's time to install that 780!
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The Peacemaker
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post #37 of 54
So the iGPU decided to play games with us tongue.gif
Yes indeed, we now know for sure that the GTX770 was boosting out of stability, also the EVGA ACX coolers are good looking. You made a good choice, we even have a EVGA rep active in OCN in case something happens.
EVGA Jacob
Hopefully no more issues will arise and you'll enjoy your new rig!
And like I said, my PSU is crap too, but it still holds.

Edit:
Edited by Tokkan - 3/2/14 at 5:12pm
post #38 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post

So the iGPU decided to play games with us tongue.gif
Yes indeed, we now know for sure that the GTX770 was boosting out of stability, also the EVGA ACX coolers are good looking. You made a good choice, we even have a EVGA rep active in OCN in case something happens.
EVGA Jacob
Hopefully no more issues will arise and you'll enjoy your new rig!
And like I said, my PSU is crap too, but it still holds.

Having a rep active on the forums is good to know, hopefully I wont need to utilize him though. The EVGA 780 is really nice looking and fits my system nicely. I do wish it had a backplate though, and the exhaust is expelling directly into the case, this is a horrendous design flaw. I have my side panel open while conducting my tests and you can feel that hot air blasting, and my temps are 63C with the panel open, I expect that number to rise considerably when the case is closed.

The packaging for the 780 was sub standard. At least thats how I perceived it. The 770 Lightning was packaged just superb, I mean that thing was secured, it was pretty, it had foam everywhere. Maybe I am just 8 years removed from buying PC components, but the MSi packaging really wowed me compared to EVGA. Not that any of this really matters...

I didn't uninstall drivers or anything, I just plugged in the 780 and it was recognized immediately, didn't even have to restart. I'm about to run some tests and will let you know how it goes!
Edited by PinkoTheCommi - 3/2/14 at 5:33pm
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The Peacemaker
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post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkoTheCommi View Post

Were you able to run other games just fine, experiencing everything normally, it was just Unigine that worked improperly?

doh.gif
Quote:
Unstable Factory OC - The card is supposed to have a 1202 boost clock stock, mine was reading 1241Mhz out of the box. I apply a -25Mhz underclock and viola! Heaven runs for 3 full loops. I check what my specs would be in Kombustor with a -25 underclock and it is running at a much cooler temperature, and rises much more slow as well. FPS drops minimally. I think I solved my problem, the factory OC was unstable. I try again in Unigine with the same -25 underclock later that day just to be sure, and I get the same error message when it was just working two hours ago. Assassin's Creed is the most graphically demanding game I own, and it is running fine at stock settings there, and when I underclock the card, I would notice a bit of a chug and the rare stutter. This leads me to believe the card is faulty.

This is >very, very very very very< common on 770's, even 760's. Unigine Heaven seems to boost higher than other stuff, a LOT higher. 50mhz over the >max boost<, not even the spec boost, at times. It can be wildly unstable at stock. I've not seen any software give me >any issues whatsoever< aside from unigine heaven and valley, yet those two have big problems. Heaven, if i change my offset so that it says the clock speed i want, it runs fine, gives the right bench values. Valley just doesn't work though.

RMA-ing cards won't help, i've seen several do it just for this. It seems like an issue on the software or even driver level with this program in particular. Sorry i couldn't get to the thread earlier, but my advice is just to set offset lower (heaven with no offset says ~1293mhz and performs as such, while everything else runs ~1254mhz for me.. I can boost my other programs to 1293 and they run fine, but heaven and other stuff crashes if it's 1306.. the only difference is, i can set 50mhz higher offset for absolutely everything aside from heaven) or to just ignore the problem, because it doesn't seem to be an issue with the hardware.


There should be some kind of PSA for this. Not the first time i've seen someone with gk104 having these problems (particularly aftermarket 770's, 760's..) and maybe even more nvidia cards - i've been in personal contact with half a dozen people seeing the same thing and this is far from the first forum thread relating to it too - people are often very confused by it and they have good reason to be, i was wondering what the heck was going on for quite a while.

Given the specific nature of the problem i'm somewhat concerned for it being a way to rig benchmarks on cards that have not been OC'd to limits. As best case scenario it seems GPU Boost 2.0 is broken.. with only a few bits of software that happen to be used for GPU benchmarking
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/2/14 at 5:34pm
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post #40 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Sorry, i gotta kick in here
This is >very, very very very very< common on 770's, even 760's. Unigine Heaven seems to boost higher than other stuff, a LOT higher. 50mhz at times. It can be wildly unstable at stock. I've not seen any software give me >any issues whatsoever< aside from unigine heaven and valley, yet those two have big problems. Heaven, if i change my offset so that it says the clock speed i want, it runs fine, gives the right bench values. Valley just doesn't work though.

RMA-ing cards won't help. It seems like an issue on the software or even driver level with this program in particular.

It wasn't Heaven that was displaying 1241, it was RivaStats. And it was 1241 in any application or game I ran, 1241 was my actual speed out of box. Heaven was saying my speed was 1306, which is just wildly inaccurate. I knew to disregard what Heaven was telling me and rely on Riva.

NOW! I plugged in my 780 and it is running smoothly, looks beautiful other than the lack of back plate, and the exhaust does filter directly into my case, not out of the case, this could be a potential problem down the road. I think I have good air flow and circulation, but having the exhaust go directly into the case rather than out just seems like a really bad design.

Heaven is running perfectly at 1920x1080 DX11, 8xAA, Extreme Tesselation, and stock speeds on the 780. However... my EVGA GTX 780 is supposed to come in at 1020Mhz out of box, mine is at 1071Mhz out of box. I should be happy with this extra 50Mhz of performance at stock settings, but after the problem with my 770, I'm not so confident.
The Peacemaker
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The Peacemaker
(31 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-4670k Asus Z97-AR EVGA GTX 780 SC 3GB G.Skill RipJaws Z 16GB 2400Mhz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Kingston V300 120GB SSD Seagate Barracuda 2TB Hard Drive Western Digital 2TB My Book External Hard Drive Cooler Master Seidon 240M 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
NZXT Kraken G10 NZXT Kraken X31 Cougar Vortex 120mm PWM Fans AeroCool Dead Silence 120mm Fans 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Cooler Master Blade Master 120mm Fans Gelid GC-Extreme Thermal Paste Windows 8.1 Asus VS239H-P 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG 42' Television Ducky Shine Legend w/ MX Blues EVGA SuperNOVA 850 G2 Phantek Enthoo Pro 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Logitech G502 Senty Mini Mouse Pad FiiO E10K DAC/AMP Superlux HD 668B Headphones 
AudioAudioOtherOther
Samson MediaOne 4a Studio Monitors Philips Fidelio X1 NZXT Hue Blue Snowball Microphone 
OtherOtherOther
Satechi F1 Monitor Stand NZXT Sentry 3 Gunnar Optiks 
  hide details  
Reply
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