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fx 6350 vs 8320 - Page 13

post #121 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReciever View Post

To be fair, it has nothing to this thread.
u mean his topic of argument??

its irrelevant to the initial thread, but it opens the door to discussion if everyone starts replying to his comment and defending their position, which everyone has
so effectively changing the topic of the thread.
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post #122 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

FX-8320 ($160) + 970 board ($90-100) + stock HSF: $250-260 can be OCed to ~4.2+ghz
Intel DOES compete with this, but not with the i5-4670K.
i5-4440 ($180) + B85 ($70-80) + stock HSF: $250-260

You're taking a 70-80$ board when a 45$ h81 will do the job but you don't have sli and b85 neither does. There isnt really a 40$ board with proper vrm for the 8320
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

FX-8320/8350 ($160-230) + 990FX ($125+) + HSF ($70-140): $355-465
i5-4670K ($240) + Z87 ($125+) + HSF ($35-70): $400-435

Any reasons you're taking a 125$ board over a 80-90$ z87 board full atx? And why would you get something better than an evo 212 on an i5? You're not going to get any higher clocks with a more expensive board on haswell and you're not going to see a temperature difference between an evo 212 & H80i.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

If anyone is bothering to read along and has a skepticism about any of the contrasted performance margins I have made above. I encourage you to do a search for haswell reviews with performance comparisons to FX chips in real application tested workloads both parallel and single threaded. I've done a lot of this. I have notes and hand drawn charts all over trying to piece together a realistic contrast for thread vs thread and core vs module and non-real-time vs real-time and highly parallel vs highly parallel workloads etc etc etc. I do a lot of performance testing myself and tons of research. I believe the numbers I have above are pretty accurate.

You're missing the point that an i5@stock has 20% more IPC in C11.5 than a 8350@5GHz. Anandtech.com/bench & http://i.imgur.com/kAqay.png

There's no chance that AMD is ever going to match an i5 in a cpu bound scenario except games that are heavily threaded such as BF4/Crysis 3. The OP will across a cpu limited lightthreaded game where he would even have terrible performance with Intel and this is why I'd recommend a locked i5 over any AMD@5GHz.

The gpu he would be using would be most likely a midrange like a 760 otherwise he wouldnt be looking at 100-150$ cpu's, he would be gpu bound with any kind of cpu eg 6300/whateveri5/8320 in BF4 so theres practically zero difference. Overclocking his cpu would make a zero difference here, the only difference he would gain is a better gpu or overclocking the gpu.

Where the CPU would matter in BF4 would be for 120/144Hz monitors with a SLI/CF config.

So bye bye argueing about BF4 performance.
post #123 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post


.......
At this price point. AMD competition for a gaming rig is not the FX-8320, it is the FX-6300. The $40-50 price gap of the CPU's can be applied towards a high value HSF like the 120V in my system ($50), or a CNPS14X or 9900MAX or other $40-50 heatpipe cooler good for 200+W (there are many, I'll be happy to name more if you're interested). By dropping the worst module (I like to call it trimming the fat), the FX-6300 tends to be a great overclocker with LOTs of people hitting ~5ghz on relatively inexpensive 970 motherboards and high value cooling. At 5ghz, the FX-6300 trades blows in gaming with the i5-4440 and has the exact same cost to implement. The i5-4440 can be up to 20% faster than a performance tuned FX-6300 in lightly threaded workloads, but the FX-6300 can be up to 40% faster in non-real-time parallel workloads. This "balancing" point that closes the gap on Intels single threaded performance in this class while opening up decent headroom for parallelism represents AMDs best potential to out maneuver an Intel offering for an equal implementation cost.......


If anyone is bothering to read along and has a skepticism about any of the contrasted performance margins I have made above. I encourage you to do a search for haswell reviews with performance comparisons to FX chips in real application tested workloads both parallel and single threaded. I've done a lot of this. I have notes and hand drawn charts all over trying to piece together a realistic contrast for thread vs thread and core vs module and non-real-time vs real-time and highly parallel vs highly parallel, with an without HT, various PD vs Haswell/Ivy etc etc etc. I do a lot of performance testing myself and tons of research. I believe the numbers I have above are pretty accurate.

So in essence you are saying go with the 6300, what if crossfire/sli is in future plans?
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post #124 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMKR View Post

u mean his topic of argument??

its irrelevant to the initial thread, but it opens the door to discussion if everyone starts replying to his comment and defending their position, which everyone has
so effectively changing the topic of the thread.

Then create a new thread for that discussion. I can say there is already quite a few active topics for that.
    
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post #125 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

You're taking a 70-80$ board when a 45$ h81 will do the job but you don't have sli and b85 neither does. There isnt really a 40$ board with proper vrm for the 8320
Any reasons you're taking a 125$ board over a 80-90$ z87 board full atx? And why would you get something better than an evo 212 on an i5? You're not going to get any higher clocks with a more expensive board on haswell and you're not going to see a temperature difference between an evo 212 & H80i.
You're missing the point that an i5@stock has 20% more IPC in C11.5 than a 8350@5GHz. Anandtech.com/bench & http://i.imgur.com/kAqay.png

There's no chance that AMD is ever going to match an i5 in a cpu bound scenario except games that are heavily threaded such as BF4/Crysis 3. The OP will across a cpu limited lightthreaded game where he would even have terrible performance with Intel and this is why I'd recommend a locked i5 over any AMD@5GHz.

The gpu he would be using would be most likely a midrange like a 760 otherwise he wouldnt be looking at 100-150$ cpu's, he would be gpu bound with any kind of cpu eg 6300/whateveri5/8320 in BF4 so theres practically zero difference. Overclocking his cpu would make a zero difference here, the only difference he would gain is a better gpu or overclocking the gpu.

Where the CPU would matter in BF4 would be for 120/144Hz monitors with a SLI/CF config.

So bye bye argueing about BF4 performance.
Why would you buy the lowest end crappy board when you're spending over $200 on a CPU? The H80i would allow you to OC better as long as you have a decent board that allows for a easier & more reliable overclock with a more reliable board,because that's what you'd want on this forum,a reliable 24/7 overclock with a board that isn't going to take a dump on you in a few month or develop quirks and errors. H80i would also be ideal for less chip degradation since Intel decides to save a few cents in manufacturing costs by using thermal paste under the IHS.
TLDR not even gonna argue when you're even thinking that a locked i5 is better than a FX 63xx or FX 83xx on Overclock.net.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

So in essence you are saying go with the 6300, what if crossfire/sli is in future plans?
FX-6300 would be fine for gaming along with a GTX 760,if you feel like you want SLI/CF now,you may as well save up for a better single GPU.
Edited by Heavy MG - 4/5/14 at 9:10pm
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post #126 of 149
Well i was going to go with a fx 6300 last xmas... then saw a 8320 for $129... had to jump on it for that price.

Glad i did... it hit 4.8 stable with almost no effort in less then 40 minutes of overclocking, a week of effort later and i had it fully stable at 5.0ghz. Fantastic chip. Hop over to the 5.0ghz club and you'll see that 8320 has the 5th highest validated clock on the board for the 8320. That was achieved with a h100 and an asus m5a99x evo. Now, i'll be the first person to admit that it's pure luck of the draw. I happened to get a good chip that didn't need much vcore to clock up (it was stable at 4.6ghz and stock vcore), but what i'm sorta working around to saying is...

an 8320, in my experience (both with this chip and others) is basically the same as an 8350... if you can get a good deal on one i'd take one over a 6 core any day of the week...
Edited by azanimefan - 4/5/14 at 9:20pm
 
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post #127 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by anubis44 View Post

Faithh, why don't you just accept the reality that AMD CPUs provide excellent value for the money? Even if we can agree (which I don't), that an i3 can sometimes provide equivalent performance to, say, an FX-6300 or FX-8320/FX-8350 in a number of games,

I think the big misunderstanding is that the gap in per-core performance has opened up to a wider margin with Haswell than people realize.
Quote:
I'd still take the FX-6300/FX-8320/FX-8350 because I often use programmes which make use of the extra real cores (transcoding, ripping CDs, doing a database search in MusicBrains) concurrently. My FX-8350 at 4.5GHz on a cheap, quiet, closed loop water cooler kicks serious ass. Face it. Intel just doesn't provide the value proposition AMD does, unles you've already decided to spend ~$300 on a CPU.

The $330 i7 has an iGPU with a hardware encoder that would do your transcoding in a fraction of the time. But that's not the chip your FX-8350 is competing with.

Unfortunately, the FX-8350 (~$200) + HSF (~$50-70 for a little CLC or something capable of getting to 4.5ghz right?) is actually in competition with the locked discrete Xeon E3-1240V3, which sells for $250-270 depending on the ebb and flow of things. The only time the FX-8350@4.5ghz is as fast as the E3-1240V3 is in those total saturation conditions where the workload uses all available compute resources. In almost all other conditions, the E3 is up to ~40% faster. 80W vs ~175W+ at full load. The FX-8350@4.5ghz doesn't offer any advantages to Intel IMO.
Quote:
If, on the other hand, you're approaching the system build from the perspective that you're going to spend as little as possible while still paying enough to get good performance across the board, AMD wins. I'll take that ~$150 I saved by getting an AMD CPU and put it towards a faster GPU every time.

At some price points and applications this is true, but not in the $200+ class CPUs. Intel has a more efficient solution that performs as good or better at every price point over $200.
Quote:
Now, with Mantle further reducing the importance of CPUs in gaming scenarios going forward, this logic applies even more. For every ancient, single-threaded game still clinging to life support, there are two or three new, multi-core optimized games coming out. And it can only be a short matter of time before those single-threaded games receive multi-core engine upgrades anyhow. The days of Intel demanding and getting ~$300 for a CPU for decent game play are over.

Mantle is like increasing fuel economy standards or drilling for more oil. We never actually wind up "using less" oil. Higher MPGs and cheaper gas just means we'll drive further. As mentioned, this just means that game developers will find the new threshold of what hardware can do with the new API and use every last drop to fill our screens with even more realistic carnage.
     
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post #128 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBuilder94 View Post

If it helps I'm a die hard Intel fan and refuse to personally use AMD CPUs. I have a 3930K with a r9 290 because their GPUs shine underwater I do however use AMD CPUs in client builds and they are just okay not an enthusiast chip but it didn't matter it's your money... You did waste money on that sabertooth however...

Not sure if you're talking to me, but....

I got my Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 as an open box from Newegg. I paid $135 shipped. Normal retail on those boards is $180+. That's not wasting money... that's smart spending. Saberkitty 990FX is one of the best motherboards for the AM3+ platform, especially if you plan on overclocking. wink.gif

Literally the only part of my entire build that I did not get at a discounted/sale price is my GTX 780. Everything else, I waited for there to be a serious deal, and then I jumped on it.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 4/5/14 at 9:41pm
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post #129 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

I got my Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 as an open box from Newegg. I paid $135 shipped. Normal retail on those boards is $180+. That's not wasting money... that's smart spending. wink.gif
If you bought it new its a waste you pay for made up features. Great board for aesthetic reasons but not performance at a new price.
post #130 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

Well i was going to go with a fx 6300 last xmas... then saw a 8320 for $129... had to jump on it for that price.

Glad i did... it hit 4.8 stable with almost no effort in less then 40 minutes of overclocking, a week of effort later and i had it fully stable at 5.0ghz. Fantastic chip. Hop over to the 5.0ghz club and you'll see that 8320 has the 5th highest validated clock on the board for the 8320. That was achieved with a h100 and an asus m5a99x evo. Now, i'll be the first person to admit that it's pure luck of the draw. I happened to get a good chip that didn't need much vcore to clock up (it was stable at 4.6ghz and stock vcore), but what i'm sorta working around to saying is...

an 8320, in my experience (both with this chip and others) is basically the same as an 8350... if you can get a good deal on one i'd take one over a 6 core any day of the week...
You got 4.6Ghz on stock Vcore? That has to be one of the best 8320's out there,although the M5A99X Evo is a great board.
I happened to get a 8320 for $135,I'm even happy that it hit 8350 clocks,I just got mine a few weeks ago,so I'm still tinkering with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

I think the big misunderstanding is that the gap in per-core performance has opened up to a wider margin with Haswell than people realize.
The $330 i7 has an iGPU with a hardware encoder that would do your transcoding in a fraction of the time. But that's not the chip your FX-8350 is competing with.

Unfortunately, the FX-8350 (~$200) + HSF (~$50-70 for a little CLC or something capable of getting to 4.5ghz right?) is actually in competition with the locked discrete Xeon E3-1240V3, which sells for $250-270 depending on the ebb and flow of things. The only time the FX-8350@4.5ghz is as fast as the E3-1240V3 is in those total saturation conditions where the workload uses all available compute resources. In almost all other conditions, the E3 is up to ~40% faster. 80W vs ~175W+ at full load. The FX-8350@4.5ghz doesn't offer any advantages to Intel IMO.
At some price points and applications this is true, but not in the $200+ class CPUs. Intel has a more efficient solution that performs as good or better at every price point over $200.
Why the locked Xeon E3-1240V3? Unless you're building a workstation rig,why not get the 4670K? You can save yourself $50 can get an 8320 and have $50 for the cooler.
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AMD FX 8320 @ 4.0Ghz/4.2Ghz turbo gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 rev. 4.0 Gigabyte Nvida GTX 770OC 2GB/ Gigabyte 970 G1 G... Gskill Sniper 1866Mhz 8GB (4GB x 2) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB WD Black 1TB Asus 24X CM Hyper 212Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home X64 HP 22BW 21.5" LED-IPS CM Storm Trigger/MX Brown Corsair TX 650V2 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM HAF922 Logitech G500S Steelseries QCK Mini Asus Xonar DX 7.1 
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Moar cores!
(16 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 8320 @ 4.0Ghz/4.2Ghz turbo gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 rev. 4.0 Gigabyte Nvida GTX 770OC 2GB/ Gigabyte 970 G1 G... Gskill Sniper 1866Mhz 8GB (4GB x 2) 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB WD Black 1TB Asus 24X CM Hyper 212Evo 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Home X64 HP 22BW 21.5" LED-IPS CM Storm Trigger/MX Brown Corsair TX 650V2 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
CM HAF922 Logitech G500S Steelseries QCK Mini Asus Xonar DX 7.1 
  hide details  
Reply
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