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fx 6350 vs 8320 - Page 14

post #131 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCBuilder94 View Post

If you bought it new its a waste you pay for made up features. Great board for aesthetic reasons but not performance at a new price.

Excuse me?

$130ish retail gets you a Gigabyte 990FX UD3 . If you want to know how bad that board is, hop on over to the Gigabyte 990FXA owners thread on OCN. Feel free to read about CPU throttling and other issues because the VRM's are not strong enough to power an overclocked FX 8 core.

Once you're done with that, feel free to talk to a ton of FX 8 core owners who recommend the Saberkitty 990FX. It's a very popular board on this forum.
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post #132 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Excuse me?

$130ish retail gets you a Gigabyte 990FX UD3 . If you want to know how bad that board is, hop on over to the Gigabyte 990FXA owners thread on OCN. Feel free to read about CPU throttling and other issues because the VRM's are not strong enough to power an overclocked FX 8 core.

Once you're done with that, feel free to talk to a ton of FX 8 core owners who recommend the Saberkitty 990FX. It's a very popular board on this forum.
I'm sorry but it's kinda of pointless that you paid $135 for a $180 motherboard,open box items also have their risks.
The 990FXA-UD3 Revison 4 is a decent board as far as i know,which seems to be the consensus over there too. It isn't a fancy Asus with tactical camo heatsinks but it's more than powerful enough for an overclocked 8 core.
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post #133 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

So in essence you are saying go with the 6300, what if crossfire/sli is in future plans?

If someone is in the market for a ~$250 CPU+GPU+HSF solution for gaming, then the logical options from a performance/$ are the FX-6300 on a 970 with aftermarket cooling or an i5-4440 on a B85 with stock cooling. Neither is really well suited to any high end multiple card solution. Placing either of these CPUs on a $125+ motherboard with "proper" multiple GPU support (8x8x3.0 or 16x16x2.0) and then actually buying into SLI/CFX where it starts to make sense (2x$350+ GPUs) would make for an unbalanced system that bottlenecks on the CPU more aggressively than one would want; so not the best place for $700-1600+ worth of GPUs. The price of the CPU becomes pretty irrelevant when we start getting into where multiple GPUs are implemented to scale performance above what is achievable on single card solutions. If you're into a multiple GPU solution where they count for something then an i7 is a fraction of the budget anyway so it really doesn't matter. That said....

I'm always open to entertain novelty builds for the fun of it. An FX-6300 on a 990FX under a BIG radiator like a CM Nepton 280 and push for 5.5ghz or something just for the fun of it. (I've had mine as high as 5.4ghz, some of these chips will do some crazy speeds). At that point it's a machine that is doing something other than performance/$ ($140 radiator on a $110 CPU, hehe, hey, why not?, FUN!). It's offering the user hours and hours of turning knobs and testing and poking and prodding and generally geeking out a lot. Which has value in and of itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy MG View Post

Why the locked Xeon E3-1240V3? Unless you're building a workstation rig,why not get the 4670K? You can save yourself $50 can get an 8320 and have $50 for the cooler.

In a workstation environment that leverages hyper-threading the locked E3-1230/40V3 achieves nearly the same performance as the overclocked 4670K at half the power consumption.. From a practicality standpoint the E3 is the better choice for most workstations, while the overclocked i5 is the better choice for a gaming rig or photo editing rig. Being able to overclock the i5 is only beneficial over the E3 if the workload scales better with clock-speeds than with parallelism, otherwise there's not much point. The E3 also has a few more features enabled that may be desirable in some work environments.

Your proposed FX alternative:

The FX-8320($160)+cheaper HSF(~$50) + 970 ($90-100) would be price competitive with the E3-1230V3 ($245) + stock HSF ($0) + B85 ($70-80). Figuring a well selected $50 HSF might get us ~4.6ghz out of the FX chip, that gives the FX chip about a 10% advantage in highly parallel workloads, and the E3 about a 40% advantage in lightly threaded workloads. This means that for most users, the E3 is going to perform a little better more of time than the FX chip. Either way works, but there's nothing about the E3 being "locked" that prevents it from being competitive with unlocked AMD chips from a pure price/performance consideration. Being locked may be a turn off for someone who enjoys performance tuning, that is different consideration.
Edited by mdocod - 4/5/14 at 10:21pm
     
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post #134 of 149
And that's what I said in my earlier post. I got this chip because I wanted something that was fun to overclock. Sure Sandy/Ivy bridge quads overclock well, but it's nothing more than increasing the multiplier about 10 ticks and then testing for stability. There's so much more involved in getting an FX 8 core stable at anything above 4.5Ghz... and having an 8-core CPU @ 5Ghz, well... to your friends that don't have advanced knowledge of CPU architectures, that just sounds cool.

And then you show them the Darth Vader mask that goes over the CPU, and suddenly, you're an evil genius... just don't show your girlfriend. She'll think you're a dork... unless you have my wife. She wants an H110 too. tongue.gif
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post #135 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh View Post

You're taking a 70-80$ board when a 45$ h81 will do the job but you don't have sli and b85 neither does. There isnt really a 40$ board with proper vrm for the 8320

Nor is there a $45 board with proper VRM support for an 80W i5/E3. Any H81 board you find for $45 is eMachine class junker garbage being packaged and renamed to compete in a pointless market. Anybody who builds a computer on a $45 motherboard would have been better off buying an already assembled computer from walmart. There's a reason for the $70 cutoff point I selected, as that's about where proper motherboards with beefed up VRMs begin on the 1150 socket platform (Gigabyte GA-B85M-D3H, and H81 Amp-Up for example). Running an 80W Intel chip on a 2-3 phase $45 board is just as bad or worse than picking out a $45 5-6 phase non-heatsunk AM3+ 760G board for an FX-8320.

That said, if you really want to play the "I can find a cheaper motherboard" game:

Biostar Hi-Fi B85S3+ vs Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3

Both are ~$60 and represent the absolute cheapest motherboards worth a look for a custom build on either side of the isle. The Biostar has a nicely spread out 4 phase VRM section that is adequate to run high saturation workloads on an i5/E3 @80W. The GigaByte has a heat-sunk 4+2 phase good for about 140W. Lots of people overclock FX-4300/6300's on it out to 4.5+ghz.

I compared the ~$70-80 B85 to ~$90-100 970 because they are extremely similar in features and the extra $20 or so on the 970 buys into 6+2 or 8+2 phase needed to push FX chips a little harder.
Quote:
Any reasons you're taking a 125$ board over a 80-90$ z87 board full atx?

If you're going to compare and contrast you have to hold each side to the same standard. The $90 Z87 boards lack the features that differentiate the ~$125 boards. Namely SLI and on-board audio quality. If you're going to put a dirt cheap Z87 board on the i5 then you have to contrast that with a similarly featured AMD board (970) otherwise you are showing some unreasonable favoritisms. I already explained this reasoning. Please read what I posted wink.gif
Quote:
And why would you get something better than an evo 212 on an i5? You're not going to get any higher clocks with a more expensive board on haswell and you're not going to see a temperature difference between an evo 212 & H80i.

Why should the AMD build be the only one to have any fun with exotic looking coolers? Again, double standard. I value it out from $35 up for the i5 build which encompasses the option to go with the boring 212 but keeps the door open to something more fun, since the entire "range" of coolers that we would be using on an FX-8320 fall into that category of "fun." It's not that big of a deal though, spending $50 instead of $35 for the i5's cooler to get something that actually looks nice (like a Zalman 9900 or a Titan TTC-NK85TZ/CS2) is fine, the contrasts I've made are totally legitimate either way.
Quote:
You're missing the point that an i5@stock has 20% more IPC in C11.5 than a 8350@5GHz. Anandtech.com/bench & http://i.imgur.com/kAqay.png
There's no chance that AMD is ever going to match an i5 in a cpu bound scenario except games that are heavily threaded such as BF4/Crysis 3.

I encourage you to go back and re-read what I have posted. I basically made your case for Intel as the better gaming chip in most situations, and explained the irrelevancy of AMD in the $200+ CPU market beyond novelty, except without having to resort to obvious bias.

A single threaded cinebench score is meaningless because that's not a real-time workload, that workload can and does scale into parallelism perfectly. of ALL the places to try to make the case for Intel being better, this is the worst possible argument.



Yea that's my FX-6300 scoring almost a 7 in cinebench 11.5. The i5-4670K, which costs more than my motherboard, CPU, and HSF combined (I paid $210), scores a 6.2 in this at stock clocks.

Quote:
The OP will across a cpu limited lightthreaded game where he would even have terrible performance with Intel and this is why I'd recommend a locked i5 over any AMD@5GHz.

At 5ghz, with no other adjustments, all other things beings equal, PD is only ~5-10% slower than 3ghz haswell in 1-thread per module vs 1 thread per core workloads. This is why I have the i5-4440 listed as being up-to ~20% faster than the FX-6300@5ghz in my contrasts of performance above. (3.3ghz turbo haswell vs 5ghz PD can still be up to 20% faster).

If we performance tune the CPU-NB and memory that gap narrows even further in many workloads, I recognize that the gap in per-cycle-per-thread performance between PD and haswell is enormous, but in those comparisons where it's a performance tuned FX chip vs a locked intel chip. FX benefits from more than just clock speed improvements. While there are some workloads that won't respond to this at all, most gaming workloads that are CPU intensive do respond to CPU-NB overclocking and fine tuning of the memory speeds/timings. The result is that in many cases, 5ghz PD can actually be a little faster than 3ghz haswell in 1-thread per module vs 1-thread per core workloads. This is why I think AMDs sweet spot for competing in gaming builds is at the FX-6300, as it is priced to compete with locked i5's and really can bring very similar per-thread performance and MORE available parallelism for those games that can leverage it. For someone who likes performance tuning anyway, it's an obvious choice over the i5-4440.

When compared against Intel -K those improvements from fine tuning the CPU-NB and system memory become a wash because Intel -K performance tuned will also have gains from memory overclocking.
Edited by mdocod - 4/5/14 at 11:47pm
     
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post #136 of 149
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the reply, even though there's some heated debates, some very valid points. I got my Sabertooth for £80 from £130 not bad really so I can't grumble at that, hiwever sort of went out and got the 770GTX first and now just the cpu left to buy. It probably will be a 8320 or 8350 depending on the deals out there.
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post #137 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Excuse me?

$130ish retail gets you a Gigabyte 990FX UD3 . If you want to know how bad that board is, hop on over to the Gigabyte 990FXA owners thread on OCN. Feel free to read about CPU throttling and other issues because the VRM's are not strong enough to power an overclocked FX 8 core.

Once you're done with that, feel free to talk to a ton of FX 8 core owners who recommend the Saberkitty 990FX. It's a very popular board on this forum.


To be fair the version 1.0 and 1.1 boards are good for a modest overclock and won't throttle. I know this firsthand. Versions two and three had the a different bios that screwed things up. I forget the exact setting it was. GA-970A-UD3P is out now and is getting some good reviews as far as overclocking.
post #138 of 149
Quick reminder to everyone

First:
Brand loyalty and personal experience are strong factors in many peoples purchasing history, but lets remember to keep this discussion respectful regardless of differences of opinion.

Second:
This thread is about the 6350 vs the 8320
NOT what motherboard is best etc.

Im ok with discussing the above chips performance on different boards because that is relevant so long as everyone can be respectful
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post #139 of 149
Thread Starter 
Well I have gone for the 8320, thanks for all the advice tongue.gif
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post #140 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Ok video time. These videos are unlisted, but if you need proof that they are me, just check the youtube channel name.

First video: BF4 optimized by Geforce Experience (settings in video)

Second video: BF4 Ultra default @ 1920x1200 (settings in video)System specs in forum signature.



Third video: BF4 Ultra default @ 1920x1200 (Intel i5 3570k @ 4.4Ghz, Crossfire HD 7870 XT @ stock)
The first two videos were taken inside on the map "Operation Locker" and Team Deathmatch w/ 64 players. In a situation such as this, it stresses the CPU because there are so many players in such a small space.

The third video was taken in an action part of Operation Locker on a system consisting of an i5 3570k @ 4.4Ghz and two HD 7870 XT video cards in Crossfire. Notice how the CPU utilization is @ 100% almost constantly, but the GPU utilization is @ 60-80% per GPU.


Let me say it again: An FX 8320 when overclocked is not... I repeat, NOT a bottleneck on BF4. Period.

If you wish to dispute my claims, I have two other videos I uploaded from the FX-8320/GTX 780 system that were recorded using Shadowplay on the same map. However, in the Shadowplay videos, they are all action sequences similar to the one that I recorded for the i5 3570k/Crossfire HD 7870 XT system. That way, we still have something that is pretty close to an apples-to-apples comparison.


I await your reply Faithh. I hope you have a good one this time. thumb.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggiddi View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithh 
My suggestion wasnt offtopic. And I'm not the one who started a debate, the one who quoted me started and they went offtopic as well.

Interesting, this guy is running an 8350 with 670 sli maxing out both in Crysis 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

I just added a 3rd video to this post which shows how an i5 3570k @ 4.4Ghz behaves while running two HD 7870 XT video cards in Crossfire. Feel free to watch it and see what I was talking about earlier.


HINT: The 3570k system doesn't perform as well as my FX-8320/GTX 780 setup... wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebellion88 View Post

Well I have gone for the 8320, thanks for all the advice tongue.gif
Sweet bro have a blast! Visit us in the Vishera Owners club in my sig. Pop in. we got all the best tips and tricks for you here. Check out my sig for a link!
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GHOST rev 3.1
(28 items)
 
 
Rura Penthe
(12 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8370 @ 4.95GHz 1.5V 2700MHz NB/3000MHz HTT ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 2x Sapphire R9-Fury 3840 Corsair Vengeance 2133 4x4GB @ 2000 9-9-10-27 1CR 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung 850 PRO 1TB WD Blue 500GB WD Blue 1 TB Samsung Spinpoint HD502HI 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC D5 Bay Res 3x CoolerMaster Storm Force 200's 2x EK-FC Fury X fullcovers EK-FC Terminal Dual Parallel 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
2x EK-FC Fury X Backplates XSPC Raystorm CPU Block EKWB Coolstream CE280 EKWB Coolstream PE360 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
3x CoolerMaster Jetflo's 120mm 6 Corsair ML140's  Laing D5 Vario Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG E2341V Roccat Ryos MK Pro Antec High Current Pro Platinum 1300W NZXT Phantom 820 Black 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Mionix Naos 7000 Mionix Alioth GX Gaming SW-G2.1 3000 Kingston Hyper X Cloud Core 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
AMD Athlon 860K Asus A88X-Pro MSI R6850 Cyclone Power Edition MSI R6850 Cyclone Power Edition 
RAMHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
G-Skill Ares 2133 CL10 8GB (2x4GB) Seagate ST1000VX003 Samsung HD502HI Arctic Cooling Freezer A30 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 10 Home Edition 64bit Razer Lycrosa Seagate M12II 620W Corsair Carbide SPEC-02 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Celeron G1840 MSI Z97-Guard Pro Gigabyte RX580 Gaming 4G Gigabyte RX570 Gaming 4G 
GraphicsGraphicsGraphicsRAM
XFX RX480 reference edition 8G Gigabyte RX570 Gaming 4g Gigabyte RX570 Gaming 4G G-Skill Ares F3-1600C9D 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung 750 Evo 120GB Stock  Windows 10 Pro  Gigabyte XP1200M 
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