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Want to build new gaming tower, old one burned down

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Pretty much as it says, My old tower Served me for nearly 6 years always good, keped up with a bit of love and care for modern games as well. But PUFF, bit of blue smoke, and now its gone.
And here is my problem, build old one surrounded by college friends (Computer Science), but i dropped out like a dumb ass i am and did not keep up with hard ware.
So now, using laptop, humbly ask for help to find and put together new tower, for purposes of computer gaming and media and some specs will follow:

I use Two monitors, and I really mean use them. I could be playing latest game on highest settings on one of them and watching HD movie on the other. Don't want either one to lag really =3
For GPU, I'd prefer to look over to AMD. While nvidia served me with my last rig, all 3 'big' consoles at teh moment rocking AMD GPUs. So in few years, games released for PC + at least 1 other console probably would be better optimized for AMD.
Hard drives, at least 1 SSD (while windows is still a must, I think I'd like to experiment with steam OS, so its either one SSD partitioned or 2 separate) and 2 other drives for games and media respectively. My old hard drives survived, but they were bad in the first place, i bought them for cheap capacity at the time, so might recycle them and what ever else I can salvage in old tower into a home Server later.

Last point is money. I will have in about 3 weeks £1500 to spend on this. That's just tower thou - I do have Monitors, and other peripherals that were upgraded and I'd like to keep. FOR EU - that's around 1800 euro, for USA that would be around $2500, but considering prices here on hard ware more expensive, consider that more like $2100

And now i would like to thank you for reading, and looking for ward to reading yur posts =3

Also, feel free to ask any questions. Cheers!
post #2 of 22
Well I understand your reason for wanting AMD but for gaming all the AMD GPU's are being sold out or marked up because of miners. Example r9 290 Manufactures Retail price is $399.99 but it might be hard finding one less than $550. I would go with Nvidia for now.

SSD = Samsung

CPU i5 is probably enough but with your budget you might as well do a i7.
 
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3x 7970's
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i7 3930K 4.8Ghz offset ASUS X79 Rampage IV Extreme GTX 780 with EK waterblock GTX 780 with EK waterblock 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3930K 4.8Ghz offset ASUS X79 Rampage IV Extreme GTX 780 with EK waterblock GTX 780 with EK waterblock 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
GTX 780 with EK waterblock  Samsung 16GB (4x4gb) 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31-1t @ 1... 256GB Samsung 950 Pro 256GB Samsung 840 Pro 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
RX360, EX360, EX360, and 480 Rad's XSPC Raystorm CPU Block Dual boot (other unnamed OS) and Win8 Pro QNIX QX2710 27" 2560x1440 @ 112hz 
KeyboardPowerCase
Corsair K90 Corsair AX1200 Corsair 700D Modded w/ External Radiators 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 3570K GA-Z77X-UD3H 4x R9 290's 8GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
1TB Hard Drive Win8 Corsair Dual PSU - AX1200 and HX650 Open Case 
Other
Thee 16x Risers and One 1x Riser 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3930K 5Ghz Bench ASUS X79 Rampage IV Extreme 3x AMD 7970's w/ EK water blocks Samsung 16GB (4x4gb) 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31-1t @ 1... 
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post #3 of 22
Thread Starter 
Price inflation might be different Here compared to US, just quick search gets me Asus R9 290 4GB for £300, which would be compatible to $400 considering all components as i said will be here more pricy.
And i would love to go for I7, even if that will put me over budged. Don't mind borrowing, as long as it is not too much, I will be due a decent tax rebate just after May anyway.
post #4 of 22
I don't see the point of spending more money on an i7 over an i5 if you're not going to use the extra features. Hyperthreading is nice, the little extra cache is nice, but that's all you're going to get for a $100 premium. I don't like paying more just for a name but that's just me. Hyperthreading is good for well threaded applications like video encoding and stuff like that. For gaming? Almost irrelevant except for a few titles.

Extra money is always better spent on extra GPU power (780 Ti over an R9 290), better PSUs (modular over non-modular), better cases (windows, extra features, etc). A good monitor is also a good place to invest money in (120 Hz over 60 Hz, etc), quieter/better case fans; even a custom water loop might be better.

If you're in the UK, an R9 290 is an excellent buy, if you're in the USA you're really better off buying an Nvidia GPU. I recommend the Tri-X R9 290 because it's pretty much the best cooler on air that can be put on a 290. However it's more expensive than other 290s, up to you if the price is a problem or not. I would rather spend extra money on getting a better and quieter cooler for my 290 than getting an i7 over an i5, for example.

You should also say what resolution your two monitors are, their refresh rate, etc. If they're two cheap VGA 1080p monitors maybe it might be better to spend money on getting 120 Hz 1080p monitors, or maybe even a single huge 1440p.

This is where I would start at: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/33Skc

It doesn't even break £1000.

Different possibilities include getting a beefier, modular PSU to be able to crossfire 290s down the road or something.
Edited by incog - 3/4/14 at 1:34am
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
at the moment it is indeed x2 1080 60fps monitors, last Peripheral to upgrade (wll be upgraded May or June, so for now just 1 GPU will do (will go for R9 290 Tri-X most likely).
Also, if Hyperthreading makes little to no difference, will i be better off just going with AMD FX 9590, got the CPU?
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMetal View Post

at the moment it is indeed x2 1080 60fps monitors, last Peripheral to upgrade (wll be upgraded May or June, so for now just 1 GPU will do (will go for R9 290 Tri-X most likely).
Also, if Hyperthreading makes little to no difference, will i be better off just going with AMD FX 9590, got the CPU?

People throw $1000 on GPU's and try to save $100 on a CPU doesn't make since to me. When I build a system that will be used for some years. I get the best motherboard and CPU I can get and change GPU's when every I want.

I have 3930K. Yes expensive CPU but was cheaper than my GPU. I have changed my GPU's three times since I bought me CPU board combo. And I sill see no reason to have to change the CPU and motherboard for maybe about 2 years still, and will probably get a one or two more different GPU's before this board is retired.

I think spending $300 plus dollars a CPU with the budget you have is not a problem. If you had a smaller budget and just had no way to get a good card at all unless you had to cut the cost of the CPU to make room for a GPU. Then thats the only case I see that its worth saving $100 on a CPU. The CPU is the centralized part of the entire PC.
 
4x r290's
(9 items)
 
3x 7970's
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3930K 4.8Ghz offset ASUS X79 Rampage IV Extreme GTX 780 with EK waterblock GTX 780 with EK waterblock 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
GTX 780 with EK waterblock  Samsung 16GB (4x4gb) 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31-1t @ 1... 256GB Samsung 950 Pro 256GB Samsung 840 Pro 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
RX360, EX360, EX360, and 480 Rad's XSPC Raystorm CPU Block Dual boot (other unnamed OS) and Win8 Pro QNIX QX2710 27" 2560x1440 @ 112hz 
KeyboardPowerCase
Corsair K90 Corsair AX1200 Corsair 700D Modded w/ External Radiators 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 3570K GA-Z77X-UD3H 4x R9 290's 8GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
1TB Hard Drive Win8 Corsair Dual PSU - AX1200 and HX650 Open Case 
Other
Thee 16x Risers and One 1x Riser 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3930K 5Ghz Bench ASUS X79 Rampage IV Extreme 3x AMD 7970's w/ EK water blocks Samsung 16GB (4x4gb) 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31-1t @ 1... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingMonitor
128GB Samsung 830  RX360, RX240, EX360 XSPC Raystorm CPU Block QNIX QX2710 27" 2560x1440 @ 114hz 
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Corsair K90 Corsair AX760i Corsair 700D Modded w/ External Radiators 
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4x r290's
(9 items)
 
3x 7970's
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i7 3930K 4.8Ghz offset ASUS X79 Rampage IV Extreme GTX 780 with EK waterblock GTX 780 with EK waterblock 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
GTX 780 with EK waterblock  Samsung 16GB (4x4gb) 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31-1t @ 1... 256GB Samsung 950 Pro 256GB Samsung 840 Pro 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
RX360, EX360, EX360, and 480 Rad's XSPC Raystorm CPU Block Dual boot (other unnamed OS) and Win8 Pro QNIX QX2710 27" 2560x1440 @ 112hz 
KeyboardPowerCase
Corsair K90 Corsair AX1200 Corsair 700D Modded w/ External Radiators 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel i5 3570K GA-Z77X-UD3H 4x R9 290's 8GB 1600Mhz 
Hard DriveOSPowerCase
1TB Hard Drive Win8 Corsair Dual PSU - AX1200 and HX650 Open Case 
Other
Thee 16x Risers and One 1x Riser 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3930K 5Ghz Bench ASUS X79 Rampage IV Extreme 3x AMD 7970's w/ EK water blocks Samsung 16GB (4x4gb) 2400Mhz 10-12-12-31-1t @ 1... 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingMonitor
128GB Samsung 830  RX360, RX240, EX360 XSPC Raystorm CPU Block QNIX QX2710 27" 2560x1440 @ 114hz 
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Corsair K90 Corsair AX760i Corsair 700D Modded w/ External Radiators 
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post #7 of 22
If you're playing games on one monitor and want to have programs open on the other (like a movie playing) then hyper-threading IS potentially useful to you, EVEN in games that don't use more than 4 cores.

Do you intend to overclock this machine? (CPU? GPU?)
     
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post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

If you're playing games on one monitor and want to have programs open on the other (like a movie playing) then hyper-threading IS potentially useful to you, EVEN in games that don't use more than 4 cores.

Do you intend to overclock this machine? (CPU? GPU?)
No intention to over clock, not a for a while, as options I am looking at the moment are i7 or FX 9590.
Bigger question thou arises, just how much sway do consoles have over gaming development, as just checking it quickly, looks like both rocking AMD CPUs as well as GPUs, so i have few friends that are adamant, that will be biggest factor in how, many high end games, perform on PC system few years from now.
post #9 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNOE View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMetal View Post

at the moment it is indeed x2 1080 60fps monitors, last Peripheral to upgrade (wll be upgraded May or June, so for now just 1 GPU will do (will go for R9 290 Tri-X most likely).
Also, if Hyperthreading makes little to no difference, will i be better off just going with AMD FX 9590, got the CPU?

People throw $1000 on GPU's and try to save $100 on a CPU doesn't make since to me. When I build a system that will be used for some years. I get the best motherboard and CPU I can get and change GPU's when every I want.

I have 3930K. Yes expensive CPU but was cheaper than my GPU. I have changed my GPU's three times since I bought me CPU board combo. And I sill see no reason to have to change the CPU and motherboard for maybe about 2 years still, and will probably get a one or two more different GPU's before this board is retired.

I think spending $300 plus dollars a CPU with the budget you have is not a problem. If you had a smaller budget and just had no way to get a good card at all unless you had to cut the cost of the CPU to make room for a GPU. Then thats the only case I see that its worth saving $100 on a CPU. The CPU is the centralized part of the entire PC.

Yeah, except that at the moment out friend is only using a single graphics card. There are some people who won't mind throwing thousands of money at their GPUs. I'm not among those people so my advice reflects that.

Your processor is indeed beefy but it costs $550 and it's got 6 cores, a soldered IHS and LGA 2011 (which means the motherboard is also going to cost $300+). Unfortunately, it doesn't boast the great IPC that newer Haswells have, which is good for poorly optimized games like SC2. An overclocked 4670k will better run SC2 than an overclocked 3930k, because SC2 is poorly written.

I don't see how you can justify getting an intel hexacore when a quad-core of a new generation, for a gaming rig, does just as fine for way less money (this is especially true if you take motherboard costs into account). I'm all for buying great hardware but I don't like wasting extra money just because it's there to be spent.

Unless our friend has the intention of streaming games at 1080p48 or something. In which case, sure, you'll need a beefier processor.

That's why I don't like i7 over i5 for a gaming rig. It's a $100 premium just for hyperthreading and some cache. It's seriously just that. Not to mention that an i7 will run hotter than an i5 with hyperthreading on. I'm also somewhat skeptical as to hyperthreading helping with multiple monitors, though if given a source that says otherwise, I'll eat my words.

Overclocking with a budget such as this one is pretty much recommended. Above a certain budget you really get a performance boost overclocking things, not to be neglected at all. I wouldn't recommend AMD CPUs for a gaming rig. I could be wrong, check out some benchmarks, but I'm pretty sure that an overclocked 4670k blows any AMD out of the water in terms of single thread performance, which is what you want for games). I also include poorly optimized games like games of the source engine.

Well, whatever; this is just my advice. I don't like spending money without reason so i don't like recommending anything more than an i5, but that's just me. It's not like a 4670k with the overclocking equipment to go with it is "budget" either way. A single R9 290 should be enough for two monitors and if not an i5 can surely handle two of them in crossfire.
post #10 of 22
Hyper-threading doesn't help with multiple monitors, it helps with what people RUN on multiple monitors. Hyper-threading increases the average parallel compute throughput. It's the [partly] reason an i3-4130 can trade blows with an i5-2400S in parallel workloads. It's also the reason that some people get better results with an FX-8350 than a similarly priced i5. If i'm gaming on one monitor, and want to keep the stock tickers and a movie playing on the other, then I may have a way to leverage some additional parallelism afforded by hyper-threading.

Once you get past the FX-6300 (which would represent the entry level tuner/gaming performance platform) or an i3-4130 (a chip that delivers 65% of the performance of an i5-4670 for half the price), every rung of the performance ladder is potentially expensive and could be rationalized as poor value. (Note: you can buy the FX-6300 plus a very well made motherboard for less than the cost of the i5-4670K, so they are separated by well spaced rungs on the cost ladder). Considering the performance advantages of the 4670k over the FX-6300, and I could just as easily make a statement to the effect that it "isn't worth the $100 premium for so little" just like the i7 over i5 consideration. One could very reasonably and legitimately stop at EVERY imaginable rung of the ladder and make the case that it isn't worth another $100+ to step up another rung. As you go up the ladder, the rungs get further apart, and the performance gains are less and less for desktop machines. The i5-4670K costs 100% more than an FX-6300 yet will struggle to achieve 50% better performance, the i7-4770K costs half again as much as an i5, yet will rarely ever return more than 30% better performance, The 4930K is *almost* double the price of the 4770K and again, will struggle to deliver 30% performance improvements.

Once you get out of the material economics in the basement, where you're paying for the packaging and the raw materials and the convenience of being able to purchase it at-all, more than the actual performance (like the Celerons/A4/A6, most junker GPUs etc), and work your way up the desktop consumer ladder, you are always "approaching" the transition zone to an entirely different hardware economy: compute density. The closer you get to this separate "zone" of computer hardware economics, the less performance/$ you will get for a desktop machine. In the compute density economy, $1000-2000 CPUs are the norm, because they don't have to compete with each-other directly, but with what it would cost to IMPLEMENT each-other (more machines vs less machines, more space vs less space, overall compute efficiency and density, etc). The $2000 server CPU that is only 15% faster than the $1000 CPU in the compute density economy, is actually competing with what it would cost to implement the additional slower CPUs, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED (including the real-estate).

If you look at a machine as the price of the individual components, i5 vs i7 etc, it's easy to rationalize any stopping point. However, if you step back, and look at the machine *as a whole* (the same way the compute density economics work), those $100 "rungs" on the ladder are often only going to represent a 5-15% or so increase in the entire cost of the machine. A 10% cost increase, for up-to 30% performance increases (depending on workload), and suddenly the i7 vs i5 has been re-legitimized. The cost of the monitor/keyboard/mouse/speakers/motherboard/PSU/chassis/HD/SSD/ODD/RAM/OS(unless linux) can't be avoided. You're going to be "out" that money one way or another to build a rig. At that point, with $600-1000+ already invested, there's a lot of legitimate reasons to consider "getting the most" out of that semi-static investment by gracing that useless stack of stuff with a decent CPU and GPU, turning it into a computer.

Perspective changes everything. Furthermore, for many, there is *value* the novelty of owning particular nice things regardless of their performance/% ratio.






DrMetal,

The hardware configuration of the new game consoles isn't really "available" on the desktop right now, except in Kaveri (closest similar architecture), which represents a fraction of the GPU configuration compared to the console design. Any decent gaming rig built today, is not going to accept any sort of "direct port" that utilizes hardware the same way as it works on the console anyway. AM3+ is has been relegated to legacy status, and certainly does not represent AMDs "platform of the future" that will narrow the gap from console to PCs (easier porting, etc). If that's what you are after, then I would suggest building a high-value rig for now, and then re-check the hardware landscape in 2 years and see what has happened.
Edited by mdocod - 3/6/14 at 2:08am
     
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yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
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Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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logitec M235 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
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Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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