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...Of Pedestals & Needing Direction

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I have a tendency to over-think things and create so many scenarios and possibilities, my brain feels like that chalk board in the original version of The Day The Earth Stood Still with scribbling everywhere.

I am adding another 360mm radiator to my loop. This project, involves the consideration of adding a pedestal for my CaseLabs ST10. Otherwise, the two 360 rads will be on intake and fighting each other for air space from the front and bottom of the case and the 480 atop the case gets preheated air. I shudder to think of the turbulent vortex amid the case swirling around and around.

This seems like reason enough to buy a pedestal. The plan is to install the two 360's in the pedestal and install intake fans in the case front. Here is where the over thinking comes in. The pedestal will have either ventilated psu covers or a 140mm fan hole in the back and a ventilated 120mm Flex Bay fan mount in the front.
I will probably earn me a smack up-side-the-head for asking, but I find myself confounded by my own thought processes.

When installing the radiators in the pedestal do I:

1) Install the rads pulling air from the outside in (toward each other sort of) and use the 140mm and 120mm fans as exhaust?

-OR-

2) Install the rads exhausting air from each side of the pedestal with the 140mm and 120mm fans as air intake to the pedestal?

-OR-

3) Forget both the 140mm and 120mm fans, get a pedestal with the ventilated psu covers on the back (leaving most of the back open), utilize the Flex Bay on the front as a no-fan ventilated Flex Bay and install the rads exhausting out of each side of the pedestal pulling air in through the ventilated covers?

This is like going to the grocery store when you're hungry! So much food....so many choices....

*DISCLAIMER: I swear on Scouts Honor I searched the forums using several terms to find an answer before posting this.
post #2 of 20
I would go with scenario 1.

The reason being, with 6 fans pushing in and two exhausting, you should end up with a net positive pressure system, which helps keep dust out of the pedestal. With 6 fans exhausting, the 2 might not be able to feed the system properly, creating negative pressure, which draws in dust and air through cracks in the chassis to feed all 6 fans.

TBH... not sure it matters, but that's what I'd do if I worried about min/maxing thumb.gif Good luck amigo!

edit: This also operates on the assumption that you have filtered intakes!
Edited by kdon - 3/4/14 at 6:19pm
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post #3 of 20
I'm just going to tell you what I am doing with my STH10. And hopefully that will further mess up and cluther up your great chalk board in your head. tongue.gif

I have 3 480 rads and 1 360 rad.
In the top chamber, two of the 480 rads in p/p.
In the bottom chamber, a 480 and the 360.
I had to install a 360 there in order to leave room for the PSU.
All rads are intaking, sucking air into the case.
Active exhaust is via 3 120 fans in the front flex bay, one 1 x 120 fan in the back I/O panel, near the socket, and tge PSU fan will also be set to exhaust case air.
Passive exhaust is done via the 3 vented PSU covers, the vented top, and vented available PCI slots (probably 2-3 of them, no more).

If this configuration doesn't offer sufficient exhaust, I'll install more exhaust fans in the PSU covers, and in the top cover.
I am doing it this way thinking that this will offer me good possitive pressure, with a fairly ballanced air in/out ratio. Hopefully, not too much of the air pushed out of the front and back will get caught back in by the top rads.
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post #4 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

I'm just going to tell you what I am doing with my STH10. And hopefully that will further mess up and cluther up your great chalk board in your head. tongue.gif

I have 3 480 rads and 1 360 rad.
In the top chamber, two of the 480 rads in p/p.
In the bottom chamber, a 480 and the 360.
I had to install a 360 there in order to leave room for the PSU.
All rads are intaking, sucking air into the case.
Active exhaust is via 3 120 fans in the front flex bay, one 1 x 120 fan in the back I/O panel, near the socket, and tge PSU fan will also be set to exhaust case air.
Passive exhaust is done via the 3 vented PSU covers, the vented top, and vented available PCI slots (probably 2-3 of them, no more).

If this configuration doesn't offer sufficient exhaust, I'll install more exhaust fans in the PSU covers, and in the top cover.
I am doing it this way thinking that this will offer me good possitive pressure, with a fairly ballanced air in/out ratio. Hopefully, not too much of the air pushed out of the front and back will get caught back in by the top rads.

Man I a chalk board eraser..... biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdon View Post

I would go with scenario 1.

The reason being, with 6 fans pushing in and two exhausting, you should end up with a net positive pressure system, which helps keep dust out of the pedestal. With 6 fans exhausting, the 2 might not be able to feed the system properly, creating negative pressure, which draws in dust and air through cracks in the chassis to feed all 6 fans.

TBH... not sure it matters, but that's what I'd do if I worried about min/maxing thumb.gif Good luck amigo!

edit: This also operates on the assumption that you have filtered intakes!

Yes, I will have Demciflex filters all around. I was leaning toward scenario 1, which is why it is, well...the #1 scenario! This seems to be the way both or going or flatly suggest. It will most likely be the way I go with it. Thanks for the input.
post #5 of 20
Now it's not really clean to me. How much raddage do you have now? And how are they configured? And the pedestal, will it offer feee airflow between it and the rest of the case? I don't have a pedestal, so I can't quite visualize how it's airflow would interact with the rest of the case.
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Dark Vader
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post #6 of 20
post #7 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PepeLapiu View Post

Now it's not really clean to me. How much raddage do you have now? And how are they configured? And the pedestal, will it offer feee airflow between it and the rest of the case? I don't have a pedestal, so I can't quite visualize how it's airflow would interact with the rest of the case.

Three radiators:
An AX480 p/p top exhaust
An AX360 p/p in front intake
A new AX360 p/p w/o a pedestal in the case bottom intake
Installing the 360 in the bottom moves PSU to upper mount about 6" below the 480 at the top of the case as exhaust
A 120mm fan mount on the in the back is/was intake (when using just the one 360 at the front of the case), will be turned to exhaust if second 360 is in the case bottom

Goals:
Keep the PSU in the bottom mount position if at all possible.
Orient the 120mm case fan in whatever capacity it best serves.
Keep a positive air flow in the case

Potential Negatives:
While the case is set up to mount up to 480mm radiators top, bottom and front, as CaseLabs states, "It may not be practical/possible to use all mounts at the same time depending on rad size and other factors." I physically can use the top mount for the 480, the front for a 360 (the case came with a 120.3 Flex Bay Rad Mount - special edition package) and a 360 in the case bottom all utilizing push/pull.
Mounting all the radiators inside the case poses the follow possible issues: PSU in upper mount works, but is close to 480, exhausting and not block, but obstructing air flow to the last two fan-sets of the radiator. The 120mm fan at the back of the case is immediately below the PSU air intake, keeping it as an intake will cause a continual PSU exhaust-fan intake loop of air already heated by the PSU.
Adding the new 360 radiator inside the bottom of the case as an intake puts the air flow of the two 360s in conflict as one will be blowing across the others air stream inside the case.

Hence the pedestal solution:
The pedestal allows the PSU to stay at the bottom exhausting, the 120mm fan at the back to turn to exhaust and 3, 120mm fans to be mounted in the front as intake. So then, how to orient the radiator airflow in the pedestal? The pedestal has options for either the 140mm fan mount, two PSU hex mesh covers, or solid PSU covers in the rear and the option for a 120mm solid (closed off) cover, a ventilated cover or a Flex Bay fan mount in the front and up to two 480 rads on each side on their side.
From the main case itself, it is possible to remove any of the four 120mm covers (allowing for a rad install in the bottom of the case) and have fans mounted in the best orientation, leave them on sealing off the pedestal from the main case or whatever. Removing the two rearmost covers puts in the PSU into play as a possible exhaust point from the pedestal.

That muddy it up enough? tongue.gif
Edited by Questors - 3/5/14 at 7:33am
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelers rule View Post

Maybe this could help
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/06/08/hesmelaughs-radiator-sandwich-testing/

Thanks, I have been there and read the article. It is a great read. thumb.gif
post #9 of 20
How long is your PSU?
Aside from the 360 rad up front taking up 10 flex bays, how many free flex bays do you have?
And I'll assume they are all push/pull, how thick are your rads?

Air flow design throught the whole case is probably the most important part of your loop's performance.
I think the way I did it brings the maximum amount of raddage at best air flow possible for that case. But my idea probably won't work in yours.
Never the less, I think we can greatly improve your cade flow, fresh air intake into your rads, and possibly make room for an other rad 480 or 560 rad. And all that before getting a pedestal.
Edited by PepeLapiu - 3/5/14 at 12:51pm
Dark Vader
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Dark Vader
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post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
How long is your PSU?
7.48" - Seasonic X1250
Quote:
Aside from the 360 rad up front taking up 10 flex bays, how many free flex bays do you have?
10 free of the14 total bays. However 4 bays are being used by bayres/pumps, fans controller and temp readouts.
Quote:
I'll assume they are all push/pull
Yes they are all utilizing push/pull
Quote:
How thick are your rads?
XSPC AX Series rads are 40mm thick with a 21mm core and 16 split fins = 32 fins per inch.
Quote:
Air flow design throughout the whole case is probably the most important part of your loop's performance.
Agreed! I understand the pedestal may not be the only answer. It does however allow for a lot of flexibility in component placement. For example, the current PSU upper mount interferes with air flow to approximately the last 1/5 of the top mounted 480mm radiator. Moving it down to the lower mount allows the rear 120mm fan to become an air intake and three 120mm fans to be mounted in the front flex bays as air intakes. I already have the 120mm flex bay fan mounts; I bought them with the case purchase.

*It should be noted that I already have the third radiator on hand. It is also an AX360. That does not rule out the purchase of another (4rth) radiator though. But, that is probably as far as the Boss (Read: WIFE) will let me go.

I believe that answers all your questions and I have given some other pertinent information.
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