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[Microsoft] DirectX12 Announced - Page 5

post #41 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Because ignoring it would be suicide in the long run.

Their GPU sales would get completely gutted if they stopped properly supporting future DirectX versions and updates.

AMD alone does not have the marketshare or the money to push mantle mainstream.
You know AMD is a company like any other... The whole point in getting more performance and getting developer support is to sell more cards.

I think we've discussed this before.

I won't go as far as to say AMD didn't market around the concept of Mantle because that's clearly not the case, but to say that its sole intent right from the beginning was to sell more cards, that's clearly wrong, this was pitched and developed for the most part by devs, AMD just happened to go through with it.

And I still don't see how anyone would switch sides or upgrade just for Mantle given the state its currently in (just 1 game).
post #42 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlackerITGuy View Post

Because Mantle is the direct result of years of begging by developers, it was not developed with the intent of selling more cards or to release proprietary AMD stuff.

It was developed with the intent of giving consumers greater performance and to give developers more control over hardware.
And AMD and Qualcomm...
AMD wouldn't release Mantle just to be nice for Developers. They made it so their mediocre CPUs can get a bit of a gain in certain situations and to sell their own cards. If it was for others to benefit, there would be nVidia and Intel support as well.

It would be nice if this didn't require hardware support(DX12, but D3D11.X) and did many of the things mantle wanted without having to adopt a new API.
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post #43 of 267
so.... does Maxwell support DX12 or no? Considering they just came out with GM107, and considering past history with GPUs, i don't see how you can force DX11 on something like a GTX 280, DX10 native.

OR is it a different way of DX in which DX12 doesn't depend on hardware and is merely a new software standard?
     
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post #44 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucdan View Post

I'm sure DX 12 won't be adopted very well like DX10/10.1. Consoles are on what, dx11.2/11.1? Because of that, many devs aren't going anywhere for a long time. It's not worth it for them to move to dx12 when coding for dx11 is where the money is at on the consoles.

None of the consoles use the same version of DirectX as us PC users.

They use custom built APIs for that very same set of hardware or in the case of the XBOX consoles, a heavily modified version of DirectX.

If DirectX 12 will be anything like Mantle, then it would make sense for developers to use DirectX 12 instead of 11.x (same low level optimizations).
post #45 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

so.... does Maxwell support DX12 or no? Considering they just came out with GM107, and considering past history with GPUs, i don't see how you can force DX11 on something like a GTX 280, DX10 native.

OR is it a different way of DX in which DX12 doesn't depend on hardware and is merely a new software standard?

I don't think we have any answers to these questions yet. We don't know if it will be backwards compatible with all DX11 cards, we don't know if it's going to be "low level access" we don't know if Maxwell will support it, if it isn't backwards compatible. What we can assume though is that this has been in the making for a bit of time, and that we are just now hearing about it. I'm more interested in Denver than I am "DX12" @ this point though.

I feel like we had a story less than a year ago about MS saying DX12 wasn't going to happen, just DX11.x updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucdan View Post

I'm sure DX 12 won't be adopted very well like DX10/10.1. Consoles are on what, dx11.2/11.1? Because of that, many devs aren't going anywhere for a long time. It's not worth it for them to move to dx12 when coding for dx11 is where the money is at on the consoles.

And i'm sure you are wrong on multiple levels... XB1 does use 11.2 though. @least that was one of the selling points @ the product demo, months ago. "Only available on win 8.1 & Xb1" that how ever doesn't mean that it's not a heavily modified version, compared to what we see in win 8.1.
Edited by skupples - 3/5/14 at 6:11pm
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post #46 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples View Post

I don't think we have any answers to these questions yet. We don't know if it will be backwards compatible with all DX11 cards, we don't know if it's going to be "low level access" we don't know if Maxwell will support it, if it isn't backwards compatible. What we can assume though is that this has been in the making for a bit of time, and that we are just now hearing about it. I'm more interested in Denver than I am "DX12" @ this point though.

I feel like we had a story less than a year ago about MS saying DX12 wasn't going to happen, just DX11.x updates.

That story did exist, DX12 only happened because of the existence of an API that is not controlled by MS gaining favors with devs. They won't allow that.

So, maybe DX12 will be a low-level version of DX11, but true, we don't know anything yet. TBH, the hardware we have in DX11 is stupidly powerful, seems a waste if they can't work just because they're not DX12.

hopefully DX12 can work on older hardware unlike past versions, but that's wishful thinking. Come to think of it, where did all the old DX10 cards go?
     
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post #47 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemama1956 View Post

AMD wouldn't release Mantle just to be nice for Developers. They made it so their mediocre CPUs can get a bit of a gain in certain situations and to sell their own cards. If it was for others to benefit, there would be nVidia and Intel support as well.

It would be nice if this didn't require hardware support(DX12, but D3D11.X) and did many of the things mantle wanted without having to adopt a new API.

Well that just happens to be the case, for the most part.

I mean, of course they are benefiting from all of this (revenue wise), but my point is that selling more cards was not the intent from the very start since it was all about giving developers more control over the hardware. they were begging for this.

It would be completely different if AMD had developed Mantle completely on their own just to release AMD propietary stuff, ala PhysX, but as it turns out to be, Mantle is just as much property of AMD as it is of the developers that pitched/helped create it.

And btw you couldn't be more wrong about Mantle being developed just so AMD "mediocre" CPUs would benefit a little (which btw is completely wrong since we've seen gains go up as high as ~100% in mGPU setups using high end Intel CPUs), etc etc etc. If having a better CPU, or overclocking your CPU would remove every bottleneck/overhead/inefficiency that plagues DirectX 11 today, then Mantle wouldn't exist in the 1st place.

Mantle was created to get the most out of modern hardware.

EDIT: Also, it's not up to AMD if NVIDIA or Intel supports this, they've been very clear that Mantle would indeed support other GPU architectures.
Edited by SlackerITGuy - 3/5/14 at 6:17pm
post #48 of 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

That story did exist, DX12 only happened because of the existence of an API that is not controlled by MS gaining favors with devs. They won't allow that.

So, maybe DX12 will be a low-level version of DX11, but true, we don't know anything yet. TBH, the hardware we have in DX11 is stupidly powerful, seems a waste if they can't work just because they're not DX12.

hopefully DX12 can work on older hardware unlike past versions, but that's wishful thinking. Come to think of it, where did all the old DX10 cards go?

GPU hell... The biggest limitation of our current high end hardware is software limitations. Modern hardware flies in engines that can actually utilize more than 2 cores, so on and so forth...

I would be willing to bet we will need new hardware to support DX12, but hey! it could be the first time in a long time that this isn't the case.
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post #49 of 267
confused.gif Will this be backwards compatible with DX 11 cards? Hope it is, what about all the people who recently bought DX11 cards?
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post #50 of 267
R.I.P DX 11. MS strangulated it even before it reached adolescence.
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