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[hardocp] BF4 AMD Mantle Video Card Performance Review Part 1 - Page 3

post #21 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Because one shows Nvidia ahead and the other shows AMD ahead?

Exactly.

Both pics are equally valid. But Alatar's pic, as he logically stated, is going to apply to the vast majority of users as the majority uses single card setups.

[H] is showing that a single 290x paired with a 3770k oc'd to 4.6 ghz will still gain 10% fps all because of Mantle.

That is impressive.
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post #22 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

I just received a GTX 780, and I am blown away at how smooth the gameplay experience is compared to my previous video card setup. It is fast, smooth, and quiet... in otherwords, Nvidia's GTX 780/780 Ti is a home run.

Again, if the R9 290x wasn't so overpriced at the moment, there might be something to mantle improvements on the R9 290(x) but because they are so expensive, I simply do not see the point at the high-end.

You still have two 7870s unless you sold them. Go try those, they can use Mantle too. So can every other GCN card ever made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Because one shows Nvidia ahead and the other shows AMD ahead?

Exactly.

Both pics are equally valid. But Alatar's pic, as he logically stated, is going to apply to the vast majority of users as the majority uses single card setups.

[H] is showing that a single 290x paired with a 3770k oc'd to 4.6 ghz will still gain 10% fps all because of Mantle.

That is impressive.

Wow, assume much without reading? Would it make nVidia users feel better if we just erased all the nVidia scores from the benchmarks since they're irrelevant in this test anyway? Sheesh.

As he said in his post, Mantle is about removing CPU bottlenecks. You are not going to have a CPU bottleneck at 1600p Ultra with a single GPU.

You want to know what WILL cause a CPU bottleneck? 7990/7970 Trifire on a 8320 at 1080p. Mantle did much better than DX11. 20% better in the exact same position.


9bts.jpg

"Thanks Mantle".

Ya that's done in the testing range, but it's also 1080p Ultra preset 4x MSAA. On an AMD CPU. tongue.gif
Edited by KyadCK - 3/5/14 at 8:20pm
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post #23 of 149
And another mantle thread is going down hill.
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post #24 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You still have two 7870s unless you sold them. Go try those, they can use Mantle too. So can every other GCN card ever made.

I did try it before I moved over to the 780. It was a stuttery mess. That's not saying anything since mantle is still in its early stages and not multi-card optimized yet. Still, that does not negate the fact that those 7870's are loud as hell when running full tilt. I wanted something quieter, and this 780 is as silent as a church mouse compared to those 7870 MYST dust busters.

BTW, I still have those 7870 MYSTs. They're just in my wife's computer now. While the 780 may be slightly slower, the game performance is much smoother and less of a headache.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 3/5/14 at 8:40pm
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post #25 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz View Post

Cheapest R9 290X right now at Newegg $589.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161438

Cheapest 780 Ti $678
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121822

In BF4, the 290X will be a little bit faster. In everything else, the 780Ti will be faster AND far quieter. I'm all for outright performance, but after I have tasted that Nvidia TITAN cooler, I'm spoiled by Nvidia... their cooler design is amazing.
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post #26 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

In BF4, the 290X will be a little bit faster. In everything else, the 780Ti will be faster AND far quieter. I'm all for outright performance, but after I have tasted that Nvidia TITAN cooler, I'm spoiled by Nvidia... their cooler design is amazing.

My reaction was similar after going from red to green. NV really, really stepped up their game starting with the Kepler GPU - Nvidia takes the time to polish everything across the board and not just performance; while the 290X performs extremely well, there is no arguing that by the intangible metrics (software features/polish, noise, heat, reference cooler quality) that NV is the winner by a landslide, generally speaking. I do hope AMD steps it up on the software side in particular, they've had some egregious shortcomings in this department. I was the victim of 7970CF + eyefinity, I should add. Don't think i'll ever put myself through that again. Anyway, If they improve that, it will improve competition which of course is a great thing for everyone regardless of which brand they like. I must say while I love Nv products and prefer them, I don't like their pricing so much. So AMD needs to step it up (on the software side of things) so NV steps it up in terms of pricing and competition.

As far as these Mantle benchmarks. I dunno. Clearly there are benefits but it seems the high end is not gaining as much as anticipated. But it is early days for Mantle. We'll see with Thief, I guess?

Regardless, reducing CPU / driver overhead is something that needs to happen. So it is good that AMD took this step - even though the performance for high end doesn't seem to be outrageous in terms of gains, I do like what Mantle is attempting in principle. Hopefully DX12 will do the same as is widely reported.
Edited by xoleras - 3/5/14 at 9:11pm
post #27 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You still have two 7870s unless you sold them. Go try those, they can use Mantle too. So can every other GCN card ever made.

I did try it before I moved over to the 780. It was a stuttery mess. That's not saying anything since mantle is still in its early stages and not multi-card optimized yet. Still, that does not negate the fact that those 7870's are loud as hell when running full tilt. I wanted something quieter, and this 780 is as silent as a church mouse compared to those 7870 MYST dust busters.

BTW, I still have those 7870 MYSTs. They're just in my wife's computer now. While the 780 may be slightly slower, the game performance is much smoother and less of a headache.

Ah that's right, you got the LE chips.

Ya, Mantle isn't a stuttery mess, you just got boned on having a Tahiti with 2GB. tongue.gif Seriously, they're like the only cards with a problem, my Tri-Fire is butter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

As far as these Mantle benchmarks. I dunno. Clearly there are benefits but it seems the high end is not gaining as much as anticipated. But it is early days for Mantle. We'll see with Thief, I guess?

Regardless, reducing CPU / driver overhead is something that needs to happen. So it is good that AMD took this step - even though the performance for high end doesn't seem to be outrageous in terms of gains, I do like what Mantle is attempting in principle. Hopefully DX12 will do the same as is widely reported.

20% is pretty good no? And more than that is the smoothness, which I will never let go since nVidia users certainly didn't. Still, I'm glad we can agree on something for a change. To Mantle, and the changes it forces in DX and OpenGL. cheers.gif
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post #28 of 149
Saying mantle gains on on highend is small, but overclocks to gain 2 fps.

I don't get it...
Cause `10+ fps is small.
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post #29 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Ah that's right, you got the LE chips.

Ya, Mantle isn't a stuttery mess, you just got boned on having a Tahiti with 2GB. tongue.gif Seriously, they're like the only cards with a problem, my Tri-Fire is butter.
20% is pretty good no? And more than that is the smoothness, which I will never let go since nVidia users certainly didn't. Still, I'm glad we can agree on something for a change. To Mantle, and the changes it forces in DX and OpenGL. cheers.gif

Hmm? I'm not saying the gains aren't good. I'm saying they're definitely not as good as I expected, most of them are around 10% or less for the high end 290X cards. Now 10% free performance, I welcome this. AMD seemed to indicate that the gain would be much higher, though. And i'm glad that DX is getting similar features in the future.

That said, in terms of smoothness if you look at the graphs - they're all generally sub 25ms so everything is smooth whether its DX or Mantle. It isn't a situation like the pre frame pacing fix days with 150ms or more in CFX. Anyway,....

One thing that interests me greatly is whether AMD can leverage Mantle in other ways. I remember several Glide games back in the day weren't so much faster than the D3D version, but the glide versions did have additional graphical features. Maybe AMD could do something like that for GPU limited games, and for the most part BF4 is very reliant on GPU unless you're using a cheese CPU. Just play to the game's strengths. Some glide games were about performance, but many more were about having those additional graphical features. Would be interesting, since a (mostly) GPU limited game doesn't play to Mantle's strengths that much IMO - the gains are good for the low end, not as good for high end.
Edited by xoleras - 3/5/14 at 9:27pm
post #30 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post


You still have two 7870s unless you sold them. Go try those, they can use Mantle too. So can every other GCN card ever made.
Wow, assume much without reading? Would it make nVidia users feel better if we just erased all the nVidia scores from the benchmarks since they're irrelevant in this test anyway? Sheesh.

As he said in his post, Mantle is about removing CPU bottlenecks. You are not going to have a CPU bottleneck at 1600p Ultra with a single GPU.

You want to know what WILL cause a CPU bottleneck? 7990/7970 Trifire on a 8320 at 1080p. Mantle did much better than DX11. 20% better in the exact same position.
  Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
9bts.jpg


"Thanks Mantle".

Ya that's done in the testing range, but it's also 1080p Ultra preset 4x MSAA. On an AMD CPU. tongue.gif

 

I hate to be the insufferable person that points this out, but you do realize that both pictures show that there IS a CPU bottleneck in BOTH instances being shown. To say that there isn't is to completely discount all data. Because clearly there is one happening. Both in a single card configuration, and in a dual + card configuration.

 

Are the gains as high with a single card configuration than a dual + card configuration? No. Is there still a bottleneck clearly being shown? Yes.

 

Take a singular step back from whatever brand loyalty you have, and just read the data being shown. It really isn't difficult.

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