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[hardocp] BF4 AMD Mantle Video Card Performance Review Part 1 - Page 9

post #81 of 149
Quote:
That's single-card, and nVidia isn't that good.

Here's the Crossfire/SLI graph from the review:

It almost feels as if the argument here against AMD fans who try to create artificial situations in which Mantle shines by suggesting test methods that are so far beyond reason it blows my MIND. Hey let's test a 290X with a Core 2 Quad. Hey let's test a 290X with a C2D. Or, let's test a 290X with a 7850k. Who the heck is stupid enough to buy a 700$+ GPU and lowball their CPU. Give me a break. OCN is about the high end, now low end cheese from 7 years ago. Or, let's test with the CPU underclocked to 1Ghz.

As far as the graph goes. Look at the graph. Everything is sub 20ms. Everything is smooth, D3D and Mantle. It isn't a situation similar to where AMD cards get 250ms frametimes as they did for years in crossfire, until the 290 series.
Edited by xoleras - 3/6/14 at 11:19am
post #82 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

It almost feels as if the argument here against AMD fans who have lost their minds and can't read graphs, and try to create artificial situations in which Mantle shines. Hey let's test a 290X with a Core 2 Quad. Give me a break. Or, let's test a 290X with a 7850k. Who the heck is stupid enough to buy a 700$+ GPU and lowball their CPU. Give me a break. OCN is about the high end, now low end cheese from 7 years ago. Or, let's test with the CPU underclocked to 1Ghz. You guys are nuts. Get a grip.

Look at the graph. Everything is sub 20ms. Everything is smooth. Oh but hey. It is great that AMD isn't getting 250ms frametimes like they were with eyefinity CF for years on end. Good on AMD for fixing it after 5 years.

A few users here done that and many are in the same boat.

there is even a user here who happily underclocks his cpu to 2ghz and plays bf4 well to save power.

OCN is about the pursuit of performance. Mantle fits in well with that.


So not sure what you are trying to get at.
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post #83 of 149
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Originally Posted by bencher View Post

A few users here done that and many are in the same boat.

there is even a user here who happily underclocks his cpu to 2ghz and plays bf4 well to save power.

OCN is about the pursuit of performance. Mantle fits in well with that.


So not sure what you are trying to get at.
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post #84 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by bencher View Post

A few users here done that and many are in the same boat.

there is even a user here who happily underclocks his cpu to 2ghz and plays bf4 well to save power.

OCN is about the pursuit of performance. Mantle fits in well with that.


So not sure what you are trying to get at.

Whatever you say. I'm going to pair a 700$ 290X factory OC'ed model with a Core 2 Duo, just for the hell of it. I mean it isn't like Mantle supports only 2 games, I can use Mantle in 100% of games. Oh wait. I can spend 700$ on a 290X, but I can't spend 200$ on a 4670k. YEAH. That sounds reasonable. And I only play 1 game. One game for the next year, i'm going to stick with a Core 2 Duo with a 290X/Mantle just for one. game. ONE GAME. only.

I'm just going to let this argument go because it sounds so insane, that it just blows my mind. Whatever.

The fact of the matter is, most people buying a high end GPU will pair it with a similarly high end CPU. You can argue about CPU bottlenecks all day long but at the end of the day - it is meaningless because Mantle is only supported by .000001% of games and most PC gamers play a ton of games. Not just one game. Speaking of which, there are 2 confirmed 2014 Mantle releases with 2 Maybe releases. Lowballing a cheese CPU when Mantle doesn't cover 100% of games is pretty much absurd - the reasonable buyer will buy a similarly high end CPU. And a core i5 is NOT expensive. If someone can afford a 600-700$ 290X , they can certainly afford a 200$ 4670K. Excellent high end Intel CPUs are NOT at all expensive. Sure the IVB-E is expensive, but you can get similar game performance with a core i5 for a mere 200 bucks. I can't believe i'm reading that we should test 290X Mantle cards with 7 year old cheese CPUs.
Edited by xoleras - 3/6/14 at 11:04am
post #85 of 149
Mantle is nice to have i guess on 1 out of 20 000 games it seem like a drop in a bucket... A single game. I guess Gdc will either nail the coffin or comfirme mantle as something to look forward to when thell show us dx12. I really want similar tech to gain momemtum but 1 game on a fraction of the gpus out thete is just way way too small.
post #86 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

It almost feels as if the argument here against AMD fans who have lost their minds and can't read graphs, and try to create artificial situations in which Mantle shines by suggesting test methods that are so far beyond reason it blows my MIND. Hey let's test a 290X with a Core 2 Quad. Hey let's test a 290X with a C2D. rolleyes.gif Give me a break. Or, let's test a 290X with a 7850k. Who the heck is stupid enough to buy a 700$+ GPU and lowball their CPU. Give me a break. OCN is about the high end, now low end cheese from 7 years ago. Or, let's test with the CPU underclocked to 1Ghz. You guys are nuts. Get a grip.

Look at the graph. Everything is sub 20ms. Everything is smooth. Oh but hey. It is great that AMD isn't getting 250ms frametimes like they were with eyefinity CF for years on end. Good on AMD for fixing it after 5 years.

Mantle is actually beneficial for ANY cpu limited scenarios like say I don't know, gamers who have SLI or crossfire rigs running 1080p monitors at 144hz or 1440p monitors at 120hz. So I am not sure what you are on about with it only being for weird scenarios and not enthusiasts.

I know without mantle, realistically I am stuck using a 100hz refresh rate, when I run mantle I bump it up to 120hz because my Minimum frame rate is that much better than it was with DX11.

That said, I am not a AMD or mantle fanboy and mantle needs work, as witnessed by the benches I posted last page where it starts hitching after about 40k frames, and does it about every 5 to 10 minutes.
Edited by the9quad - 3/6/14 at 11:05am
post #87 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Whatever you say. I'm going to pair a 700$ 290X factory OC'ed model with a Core 2 Duo, just for the hell of it. I mean it isn't like Mantle supports only 2 games, I can use Mantle in 100% of games. Oh wait.

I'm just going to let this argument go because it sounds so insane, that it just blows my mind. Whatever.

Maybe they are trying to lower the barriers for entry in regards to gaming and open it up to a broader audience. Being able to reduce cpu overhead is huge for gaming. If you just wanna game, and prefer pc, why would you want to spend 500 on a cpu just to get the full potential performance from your gpu. Your argument is really the mind boggling aspect. Why do you want to spend more money lol..?
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Sorry AMD
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post #88 of 149
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Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Whatever you say. I'm going to pair a 700$ 290X factory OC'ed model with a Core 2 Duo, just for the hell of it. I mean it isn't like Mantle supports only 2 games, I can use Mantle in 100% of games. Oh wait. I can spend 700$ on a 290X, but I can't spend 200$ on a 4670k. YEAH. That sounds reasonable. And I only play 1 game. One game for the next year, i'm going to stick with a Core 2 Duo just for one. game. ONE GAME. only.

I'm just going to let this argument go because it sounds so insane, that it just blows my mind. Whatever.

Well I can tell you there are a ton of users still using AMD Phenom II CPU's,etc.. Not everyone has they money to upgrade their systems all at once. Even a new rig with a FX 4/6 series will benefit from Mantle. The whole point is to be able to enable people to save on their CPU expense in order to get a better gaming GPU. Why is that so hard to understand?
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post #89 of 149
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Originally Posted by the9quad View Post

Mantle is actually beneficial for ANY cpu limited scenarios like say I don't know, gamers who have SLI or crossfire rigs running 1080p monitors at 144hz or 1440p monitors at 120hz. So I am not sure what you are on about with it only being for weird scenarios and not enthusiasts.

To be clear, I like the direction Mantle is taking with CPU limited scenarios. That's fine. This needs to happen in both DX12 AND Mantle and I am happy that AMD has done this. However, suggesting that we should test CPUs from 2007 to make mantle shine is stupid and blows my mind. If you can afford a 700$ CPU, then you can afford a 200$ 4670K, period.

It's like some AMD fans want to show Mantle in the best light by using scenarios that are completely stupid and unrealistic. That's the gist of my argument here - Mantle doesn't cover 100% of games, it covers .00001% of games, so it isn't reasonable to suggest that everyone sticks to a 50$ CPU just to use Mantle. Anyway, Just be content with the 10% performance gain that the high end is getting. That is certainly NOTHING AT ALL to scoff at, it's 10% free performance. AMD users on the high end are getting free frame rates and slightly better frame times. Again...NOTHING to scoff at there. AMD achieved their goal and Mantle is working as it should be.

My only argument is those trying to suggest artificial tests just to inflate Mantle's scores - by lowering IQ settings and using crap CPUs. That's pretty silly.

This is not a knock against Mantle. Again, Mantle is providing a free performance boost for AMD users. That's awesome. For the 100th time, I just don't like the idea of trying to suggest artificial scenarios designed only to inflate Mantle benchmarks. By using cheese CPUs. Make sense? Mantle is doing it's job and doing it well. I applaud AMD for that.
Edited by xoleras - 3/6/14 at 11:14am
post #90 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoleras View Post

Whatever you say. I'm going to pair a 700$ 290X factory OC'ed model with a Core 2 Duo, just for the hell of it. I mean it isn't like Mantle supports only 2 games, I can use Mantle in 100% of games. Oh wait. I can spend 700$ on a 290X, but I can't spend 200$ on a 4670k. YEAH. That sounds reasonable. And I only play 1 game. One game for the next year, i'm going to stick with a Core 2 Duo with a 290X/Mantle just for one. game. ONE GAME. only.

I'm just going to let this argument go because it sounds so insane, that it just blows my mind. Whatever.

The fact of the matter is, most people buying a high end GPU will pair it with a similarly high end CPU. You can argue about CPU bottlenecks all day long but at the end of the day - it is meaningless because Mantle is only supported by .000001% of games and most PC gamers play a ton of games. Not just one game. Speaking of which, there are 2 confirmed 2014 Mantle releases with 2 Maybe releases. Lowballing a cheese CPU when Mantle doesn't cover 100% of games is pretty much absurd - the reasonable buyer will buy a similarly high end CPU. And a core i5 is NOT expensive. If someone can afford a 600-700$ 290X , they can certainly afford a 200$ 4670K. Excellent high end Intel CPUs are NOT at all expensive. Sure the IVB-E is expensive, but you can get similar game performance with a core i5 for a mere 200 bucks. I can't believe i'm reading that we should test 290X Mantle cards with 7 year old cheese CPUs.

I am not arguing with what you wont do.

people do what they want to, just like you do. People have made those decisions, people still are using outdated cpu.

For example my brother has a phenom II x4 and a 7870. Now he plays Bf4 better than ever.

He didn't fit a $700 gpu with a a $200 cpu. He sure is benefiting alot.

He isn't experience stutters I experience which I find weird though.
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