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windows 8.1 SSD trim issue

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 
hello,I recently bought an ssd samsung 840 EVO 120gb,performed a clean os install with all the latest drivers for my mobo,sata driver too,ahci is running too,under Optimize drives,I have enabled Daily schedule on all drives(ssd+2hdds),that was 10 days ago,on both HDDs it says (0 days since last run)on my ssd it says (7 days since last run)i ran it optimize manually then.So my question is,why windows doesnt optimize it automatically?? my write speeds have dropped considerably,only solution i find is to run it manually but thats annoying -.- obviously trim is working because running it manually works and restores the drive's performance..
post #2 of 16
I'm far from an SSD/HHD expert, but what is there to optimize on a SSD?
HDD can be optimized, but I believe there is no need to optimize a SSD?
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post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
HDDs benefit from defragging and file placement optimisations,SSDs benefit from TRIM and Garbage Collection,GC is performed by the drive itself,trim on the other hand is performed by the OS,It is a very complex process but long story short,ssd performance slows down after time if it is not trimmed regularly(mostly write speeds but read speeds can be affected too).google it if u want more info..
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by parrot1553 View Post

HDDs benefit from defragging and file placement optimisations,SSDs benefit from TRIM and Garbage Collection,GC is performed by the drive itself,trim on the other hand is performed by the OS,It is a very complex process but long story short,ssd performance slows down after time if it is not trimmed regularly(mostly write speeds but read speeds can be affected too).google it if u want more info..

I believe both TRIM and Garbage functions are automatic, TRIM being faster.
So as long as the computer is on, deleted files are being cleared (running in the background) automatically.
I'm wondering if you have the SSDs set to be "optimized", it interferes with TRIM and Garbage.
In other words your telling the computer to see the SSDs as HHDs, not SSDs
So maybe try not having the SSDs set to be optimized, might allow the TRIM and Garbage to function correctly.
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post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
apff,just read this http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/windows-8-optimize-drives-sets-automated-trim-for-ssd-health-comfort/

my problem is that the schedule doesn't work,even on daily schedule,it says (7 days since last run)
post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoboy View Post

I believe both TRIM and Garbage functions are automatic, TRIM being faster.
So as long as the computer is on, deleted files are being cleared (running in the background) automatically.
I'm wondering if you have the SSDs set to be "optimized", it interferes with TRIM and Garbage.
In other words your telling the computer to see the SSDs as HHDs, not SSDs
So maybe try not having the SSDs set to be optimized, might allow the TRIM and Garbage to function correctly.

TRIM is just a command to execute garbage collection.
post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

TRIM is just a command to execute garbage collection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by parrot1553 View Post

apff,just read this http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-news/latest-buzz/windows-8-optimize-drives-sets-automated-trim-for-ssd-health-comfort/

my problem is that the schedule doesn't work,even on daily schedule,it says (7 days since last run)

I would guess the Windows OS has no reason for a "scheduled" TRIM/Garbage function, as TRIM is always running in the background as long as the computer is on and booted into Windows, sitting idle.
Garbage will function as long as the SSD is powered, I believe it's not dependent on an OS to function, but Garbage is much slower then TRIM.
TRIM is part of the OS , so knows how to talk to the Win OS, so can figure out faster what files have been "deleted" by the user.
I'm guess then TRIM tells Garbage what to wipe from the SSD.
When you manual optimize a drive, Windows would do the TRIM function, but the OS has no good reason the "schedule" TRIM, as TRIM as is always running anyway.
So just try leaving your SSD unscheduled and see what happens.
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post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

TRIM is just a command to execute garbage collection.

I would think TRIM is more then just command to execute Garbage, it know what files the Win user has deleted, as it's designed to work with Windows.
Garbage is firmware/hardware, it would have very limited communications with Windows or any other OS, compared to TRIM.
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post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoboy View Post

I would think TRIM is more then just command to execute Garbage, it know what files the Win user has deleted, as it's designed to work with Windows.
Garbage is firmware/hardware, it would have very limited communications with Windows or any other OS, compared to TRIM.
"Hello, In Windows 7 - we turned off defrag for SSDs as you mention in your entry; but in Windows 8, we have changed the defrag tool to do a general optimization tool that handles different kinds of storage, and in the case of SSD's it will send 'trim' hints for the entire volume;
SSDs are storage devices made of flash memory; flash memory unlike hard disks are block erasable devices - they can be written to at a byte level but need to erased at a block level; Trim is a storage level hint that was introduced in the Windows 7 days to indicate that Windows is not using certain regions of the storage device; NTFS will send these trim hints when files are deleted or moved from those regions; SSDs consume these hints to perform a cleanup in the background called as 'reclaim' that helps them get ready for next writes. The SSD may choose to perform the optimization immediately, store the information for later optimization or throw away the hint completely and not use it for optimization since it does not have time to perform this optimization immediately.
In Windows 8, when the Storage Optimizer (the new defrag tool) detects that the volume is mounted on an SSD - it sends a complete set of trim hints for the entire volume again - this is done at idle time and helps to allow for SSDs that were unable to cleanup earlier - a chance to react to these hints and cleanup and optimizer for the best performance. We do not do a traditional defrag (moving files to optimizer there location for space and performance) on SSDs.
Thank you for your question and I hope this clarifies the need to run the Storage Optimizer on a regular basis."

my problem is that it doesnt do it in idle time,because the optimize drives tool shows (7 days since last run) on the ssd and (0 days since last run) on the hdds
Edited by parrot1553 - 3/6/14 at 1:56pm
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by parrot1553 View Post

hello,I recently bought an ssd samsung 840 EVO 120gb,performed a clean os install with all the latest drivers for my mobo,sata driver too,ahci is running too,under Optimize drives,I have enabled Daily schedule on all drives(ssd+2hdds),that was 10 days ago,on both HDDs it says (0 days since last run)on my ssd it says (7 days since last run)i ran it optimize manually then.So my question is,why windows doesnt optimize it automatically?? my write speeds have dropped considerably,only solution i find is to run it manually but that's annoying -.- obviously trim is working because running it manually works and restores the drive's performance..

How full is the SSD?
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ENIAC
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