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[Forbes] 'Titanfall' Will Have A Season Pass, Paid And Free DLC - Page 12

post #111 of 339
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Originally Posted by BlitzNwl View Post

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Originally Posted by akaTRAP View Post

So $60 for the game, at least $50 for LIVE because it's online-only, then another $25 to access all the content locked away in that large download. So this game is going to cost you $135 in order to get the full product...........

I missed the days when I could go to EB Games and only spend $50 for a full game, and actually get a FULL game.
You forgot the monthly internet and power bill. If you play for 5 months thats close a $1000 game.

Yes because prior to 2014 cable and power never existed, we didn't have bills.

The inflation argument was already proven. Your $50 10ish years ago is $85-$90 now and you never got as much gameplay so...ifk what horse you're in but, time to get some fresh air.
post #112 of 339
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Originally Posted by Masked View Post

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Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

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Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant Storm View Post

...meaning they might have had to give EA a lot of control over the product for them to give them development money and distribute the game. Like I said we'd have to know the details of the contract and EA is probably getting to used to dealing with developers that it owns to revert too far back to the old method.

However, at the end of the day the developer/author could tell the publisher to shove their check and go else where for funding (provided they are not owned by the publisher)...so I am sure most developers are fully on board with the new business model. The ones that aren't are probably the ones not going through a major publisher.

No.

Ea did not have "a lot of control". EA simply had distribution rights.

How do we know this? Apparently everyone's "google-fu" has gone out the window.

Source
Quote:
As soon as EA and Microsoft’s honeymoon period is over Titanfall will need a more open relationship. With the contractual obligations out of the way, to use it’s own phrasing, EA needs to double-down on Titanfall, not just next-gen development.

That SINGLE snippet, tells us all we need to know.

That tells us, there's a very CLOSED relationship. With that snippet and a few others from the www, it's very easily ascertained that EA is simply a distributor/publisher...IE, hands off.

Above/beyond that, EA's relationship with only Microsoft was a major limiting factor since, if you've been following this project since inception, they originally were pointed at the PS4.

----

Now, most of you are using EA/DICE as a source for major problems but, that's not accurate.

EA OWNS DICE. So EA can do whatever they want to BF and nobody can say anything, they're not only the studio, they're the publisher.

With Respawn that dynamic is 100% different. They are simply a distributor that made suggestions towards the game's release, that's it.

Who's to know if the studio went with those suggestions or not...Ultimately, all we know is that Titanfall's release was limited due to EA's relationship with Microsoft which, in the tech world means that Respawn had more leverage over EA than EA had over Respawn.


I am sorry...I don't know how you got any of that out of that source. Going off that source apparently EA has enough power to force the developers to only release Titanfall on the Xbox One. That is pretty huge...especially considering how well the PS4 is selling. That is a lot of sales the developer is missing out on. There was no worry about what the developers wanted...not really even what EA wanted...it is really just about what Microsoft wants from their contract with EA. That is pretty much exactly what this thread is about. The developers not having control over how their game is sold and being at the whim of EA and by extension...Microsoft.

Even if it was completely the developer's decision to have day one DLCs and boast of minor updates and maintenance...that is nothing compared to limiting what platforms your game is allowed to be sold on. So if EA has that much power it is not a far stretch for them to have the power to demand a couple extra DLCs to sell.

I don't mean to sound like I am disagreeing completely...I believe that it is both the developers and the publishers that are making things the way they are, but that source puts more evidence in for EA being the culprit.

*sigh*

That article is actually about EA having an exclusivity contract with Microsoft and how with that period ending, EA should get a better deal with Respawn.

Respawn had initially aimed for the ps4 market but could not because of their publisher's exclusivity.

How you got the above, I have no idea but you've read above and beyond what we've all actually been telling you so...at this point, idk how to explain this any better than it's already been explained so, I'll say it again.

Ea had 0 say in the design process of Titanfall. They're existence is solely to license and distribute.

Though wouldn't saying what is and what isn't to be a paid DLC and the existence of a "season pass" under the jurisdiction of distributing the game? No one is thinking that EA decided to make a game with mechs and humans in it...people are thinking that EA is deciding to distribute the game and its future updates in a non-desirable manner.
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post #113 of 339
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Originally Posted by end0rphine View Post

Also forgot the TV to play that boss game on.
Games are just too expensive now-a-days wink.gif

But wait, where does that TV sit? Need to buy a nice shelf for that baby to sit on. TVs love shelves.

Your right. You know what shelves love too? Walls. So you need to rent a room. Now this is getting crazy just to play a game online.
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post #114 of 339
Ok, let me start by saying this has nothing to do with Titanfall in particular. It looks like an interesting game. I haven't played the beta. I might buy it when it goes on sale if it gets good reviews and I see some good footage of it. In general I think EA is awful and I don't really care if you think EA has a hand in the development/sale of this game or not. Doesn't really matter anyway for the arguments below:

People keep arguing that DLCs are no different than Expansion Packs of old, and that we should not look upon DLCs with disdain when we have fond memories of games with expansions.

In concept, you guys are right.

Theoretically, a $30 expansion 1 year after release that adds 9 maps and 3 guns is no different than 3 DLCs released in consecutive 4 month intervals after release, costing $10 each, and each containing 3 maps and 1 gun.

The DLC method allows the user extra control over which parts of the game they want to buy, so if they don't like that third gun, they can save 10 bucks and skip it. They also get content more regularly, so the game can potentially "stay fresh" longer. If anything, the DLC method is better, right? After all, expansions only made sense because distributing games used to be a physical affair, and distributing 3 CDs would have cost more than one CD with 3 times as much content.



The problem is, DLCs don't break expansion content and cost into smaller chunks but retain the same content/cost ratios. Instead of breaking a $30/9 map expansion into 3 $10/3 map DLCs, many (not all, but most) developers/publishers pump out 1 gun at a time for 10 bucks a pop, and then sell 3 maps at a time for 20 bucks each. Its the same amount of content, but at 3 times the cost.


Another issue is that in the past, expansion packs would be made a year or two after release, allowing developers to see how the players adapted to the game, and were able to use that information to really target their expansion content. If your game fosters a lot of camping, adding an expansion item that specifically targets campers but is otherwise weak is a lot more interesting than just adding a new sniper that has one less shell in it's mag but does 5% more damage, or some other insignificant and uninteresting variation that is common for modern DLC content that has to be rushed out the door before anyone has a chance to really think about it.


Fragmentation is another huge issue. If a game has one big expansion pack, you either have all the content, or you have half. It is pretty easy to pick servers, play with your friends, etc. Furthermore, because of the slower content release cycle, if players are still playing a game by the time an expansion is released, they probably like the game enough to actually buy the expansion, leaving very very few people without the expansion content. With constant little DLCs, everyone has different content. It makes multiplayer a huge ugly mess. It often reduces the value of a game just as much as it add to it, making the value of the additional content completely moot. Luckily, this particular aspect isn't really an issue in single player at least.


Yet another issue is that the larger nature of expansion packs allowed for better balance and debugging. All the new content was added at once, and all possible interactions between the various bits of new content, as well as their interactions with old content, were immediately visible and could be fixed/balanced as needed. With the constant torrent of tiny DLC content we get in some games, every release breaks something, and development is immediately focused on making the next DLC rather than fixing the issues the last one caused. I love Planetside 2, but every time they release a new weapon, an old one that people may have spent money on suddenly becomes completely worthless forever after, and about a week after release, every new gun gets it's functionality changed in order to "balance" it, causing many people who bought it for a specific role to essentially lose their purchase as well.

"Day 1 DLC" and "on CD locked content" are both absolutely atrocious of course. I don't really think I need to argue those points to anyone. What I will argue is that a lot more DLCs fall into this category than some people seem to believe. Just because it wasn't available on release day, or didn't have it's content already on the CD, doesn't mean it wasn't content cut from the original game. You can bet a lot of DLC content that is released a month or two into a game's life is actually already made and ready and just waiting for that extra month. Sometimes this is a compromise in order to get good ideas into a game that the original budget or time restraints didn't allow for, but more often than not is is a way to charge customers more for the same content that could have and would have been in the original game had it not been lopped off and held ransom. IMO, "season pass" or "premium" packages feel like they at least partially fall into this category. How on earth do they know that there will be exactly x many DLCs, each with exactly y number of weapons/items/maps/game modes, released at exactly z date, if they aren't already mostly done, or at least conceptually done and so easy to code by a certain deadline that they could have reasonably been finished by the game's original release had they spent a little more on development and a little less on marketing the season pass DLCs to begin with?


All of this is made worse by the fact that with the acceptance of tiny, frequent, paid DLC, came the death of modding. Mods often added just as much if not more to a game than an expansion ever could - and for absolutely free. If you had a game you loved but wanted a little variety, you just downloaded a mod. You only bought the expansion if you really really loved the game and the expansion had amazing first party content that was better (or at least significantly better) than what you could get for free. By killing modding, DLCs have become the only way to get new content for games. A mediocre expansion didn't get purchased, but the same content in DLC form will sell, and for twice as much, because it is the only option available. It really hurts the quality of games in general, and is clearly a greedy money grab. The worst part is, you often have to buy these DLCs just to get what should be free bug fixes, often to bugs that wouldn't have even existed in a time when a newly released game was expected to stand on its own rather than simply crawl, crippled and broken, from one DLC update to the next.


Basically, in the past, a game got an expansion if proved to be really successful, and a second expansion if that first expansion really gave player's a lot of value and they were still begging for more. These days, every piece of half baked trash gets a dozen pre-order-able DLCs before they are even released, and is barely playable unless you own all of them. I'm all for additional content to a great game, but it isn't really additional content if you are buying back the missing stolen half of a game before it is even released.
Edited by Zero4549 - 3/6/14 at 11:18pm
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post #115 of 339
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Originally Posted by Masked View Post

Yes because prior to 2014 cable and power never existed, we didn't have bills.

The inflation argument was already proven. Your $50 10ish years ago is $85-$90 now and you never got as much gameplay so...ifk what horse you're in but, time to get some fresh air.

You have said it like 10 times already but i honestly don't get your "never got as much gameplay" point. The only game that really got me hooked for more than 200 hours in the latest 3 years is Path Of Exile, a f2p with no pay2win that just got a huge patch for free.

While older games like warcraft 2 and Age of empires 2 i probably played for 500+ or even 1000+ hours. I was a lot younger back then of course which could be why i got bored much less fast but still. RTCW:ET is another game i used to play at lot, which was free with a lot maps and the community later made even more maps.
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post #116 of 339
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Originally Posted by KingAlkaiser View Post

i was in no way referring to bioshock infinite but in general greedy common practices. It is well known facts a lot of popular games in recent years have had controversies of releasing games with locked content and or unreleased portions of the games only to maximize profits by releasing it as extra content, before DLC started to be released within years of a games lifespan, but now they have "extra content" released during the first day the game itself sold to public.

not sure why you sound a bit mad/butthurt bro but I was talking about in general, and not to get into EA this or that but EA also known to follow these slime ball tactics for profit. The truth hurts i guess. Shame fellow OCN members are not smart enough to see through stuff like that. no offense to anyone.
You'll fall on deaf ears anyways. So there's no point in bothering. Letting the industry fix itself is really the only thing that can happen. Kind of like how multiplayer passes fixed themselves. Eventually people will get sick of this crap and spit it back out at the publishers/devs/whatevs. Then carry on milking the next thing.

Anyways I won't be getting Titanfall. For standard and principle reasons. If it ever hits 15-20$ I might consider it, but its just a consideration.

Its sad that its come down to this. Never mind the actual expansion packs that released for games. I just miss the mod scene. Now so very few games inherit it while it used to be in literally every game in some form or another. I think its funny now that a game being moddable is labeled as a selling point. Next thing you know we'll be paying for FOV sliders, .ini files, and the pleasure to rebind our keys.
Edited by Mailman377 - 3/7/14 at 12:30am
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post #117 of 339
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Originally Posted by Athrun Zala View Post

The claim that a game isn't complete is your opinion and your opinion alone. What constitutes an incomplete game anyways? And I do speak with my wallet--If I don't want the content, I don't buy it. Simple as that. I doubt there's so few maps already in Titanfall's base game that you will have to buy the packs. The lot of you complaining about DLC like it's going to be the end of gaming need to lower the dramatic level a couple of notches. It's really not that serious.


Day 1 dlc points to an incomplete game.
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post #118 of 339
There are good ways and bad ways to do DLC.

Example of a good way: Skyrim. These add entirely new storylines, new areas, new plot-focused equipment. Theoretically, could they have been included in the game? Maybe, but they feel like an expansion pack. Having a good spacing between the launch and the DLC helps as well.

Example of a bad way: Mass Effect 2, Dragon Age: Origins. ME2 was the game that really soured me on DLC. And it's a game that, to me, feels incomplete. No, I'm not talking about the Shadow Broker DLC, I'm talking about all of the miscellaneous tiny equipment addons that were available. The equipment system itself in ME2 is a joke, and that's largely what feels incomplete. As if they were intending to not really use an equipment system at all, and then said "Oh, hey, you know what? We can sell people shiny toys! They'll buy them!" and then they kludged together an equipment swap UI. When the "standard" game has exactly two options for a particular type of weapon, but you can get three more from DLC, that's what I mean when I say that wasn't a complete game. ME2 felt rushed to me, that a lot of the systems were almost ready but not really fully developed, and so then they threw more pieces for them through DLC to hope nobody noticed the gaping hole.

For DA:O, it mostly comes down to the Shale situation. Here we have a character who is fully integrated into the storyline, has a unique presence and interaction with the rest of the party and NPCs, and yet, somehow, is called "day 1 DLC" and given restricted access. I can't even remember at this point what promotion I managed to qualify for to get access myself (think it was a preorder?), but this is another example of something that could have, should have, been in the standard game but got locked behind the DLC paywall just because they could get people to shell out cash for it.

And what do these two games have in common? I'll let you guess.

That's what pisses me off. The idea that we're getting nickel and dimed, rather than being presented with full, complete games the way they used to be. DLC is not an excuse to micropackage your whole game. DLC is an opportunity to provide a source of ongoing content, keeping your game fresh for years and maintaining a bi-directional flow between the player and the developer/publisher.
post #119 of 339
DLC would not be such a problem if it would not mean developers locking down mods. A good example of that is in my opinion civilization 5. Civ 4 had this very awesome mod "rise of mankind", after Civ 5 released the mods started on converting this to the new Civ 5 engine but the project was scrapped when it turned out that in order to sell it's DLC the Civ 5 was so horribly locked down it was not possible to reasonably do that rather through mod so the project was mothballed. Sure even before DLC map-packs and whatever were sold. However, as was pointed out earlier it was the community packs that really breathed the life into things - for example, the Unreal Tournament is one of the classical examples. It is awesome to this day bcos of all the community done things more than decade after its release.

Day 1 DLC just means that if you buy only the "core" game you are getting incomplete experience. Just another way of saying that the game will cost 60$ + 25$ instead of coming out and being honest about it and selling the whole game for 85$. But whatever, there will be enough sheep to buy a game with day 1 DLC and as long as there is enough such people the games with day 1 on-disk (or even worse, stuff you must download, but cant access before you pay) DLC will be released.

As far as EA "not being developer of this game" ... mm yeah, sure. Given their track record, however, I'm pretty confident the main reason why there is day 1 DLC is bcos it's published by EA. No self respecting developer who cares about the game he is releasing would do that in my opinion.
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Gigabyte 390X G1 Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
64 GB Barracuda 3 TB WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB Sythe big shuriken rev B Windows 7 Pro 64 bit 
MonitorMonitorMonitorMonitor
DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i Modded Sharkoon VS-3 Logitech G700s 
Mouse Pad
3M Ergonomic 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i7 3820 X79-UP4 Sapphire 7950 FleX OC XFX 6770 Eyefinity 5 
GraphicsRAMHard DriveHard Drive
Club3D 7870 Eyefinity 6 64 GB Samsung 750 GB F3 Barracuda 3 TB 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
WD Green 3 TB Crucial M4 256 GB Crucial M4 64 GB Barracuda 4 TB 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
Custom loop Windows 7 Pro 64 bit DELL U2311H (x3) DELL U2312HM (x2) 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
9.7'' 2048x1536 (x3) IPAD3 retina Asus PB287Q 4K CM Quickfire TK (red) Corsair AX-1200i 
CaseMouseMouse Pad
Modded Chieftec Smart WH-02B-B-OB Logitech G700s 3M Ergonomic 
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post #120 of 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

DLC would not be such a problem if it would not mean developers locking down mods.

And, again, I have to give credit to Bethesda and Skyrim for doing it right.
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