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[WashingtonPost] California bar bans Google Glass, fears recording - Page 16

post #151 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

See, making rules about not video taping is not the same thing as discriminating against groups of people. Video taping is not a condition, it's an act. You can't discriminate against conditions, but you can discriminate against actions. Unless you prove otherwise (there is a law that explicitly states that a private business owner cannot ban usage of devices), the owner is free to ban whatever they want as long as it doesn't discriminate against groups of people for being a certain way.
An on duty police officer isn't a private citizen, he/she is a public servant, so the law doesn't apply. Off duty, he/she would be a private citizen and the law would apply. That's how I understand it at least. It's the same thing for government meetings that are supposed to be open to the public. Any governmental hearing or meeting that is open to the public has to allow recording of said hearing or meetings.

goolge glass by itself is not an act though,
post #152 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

In California it's illegal to record conversations without the consent of both parties. Even if it's in public:
.


I did PI work for a long time, states have different statutes, I'd like you to cite the penal code where it says it's a criminal violation to record someone IN PUBLIC without their consent. I am damned sure that statute is reference to telephone conversations and private conversations. Public would negate the whole "private" part of the conversation.
 
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post #153 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I did PI work for a long time, states have different statutes, I'd like you to cite the penal code where it says its a criminal violation to record someone IN PUBLIC without their consent. I am damned sure that statute is reference to telephone conversations and private conversations. Public would negate the whole "private" part of the conversation.

yup, that is what i thought too.
post #154 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

goolge glass by itself is not an act though,

The act of choosing to wear Google Glass. It is an act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I did PI work for a long time, states have different statutes, I'd like you to cite the penal code where it says it's a criminal violation to record someone IN PUBLIC without their consent. I am damned sure that statute is reference to telephone conversations and private conversations. Public would negate the whole "private" part of the conversation.

California Penal Code Section 630-638:
Quote:
Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment

"Whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another" meaning face to face.
Quote:
The term "confidential communication" includes any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.

The key phrase here is "reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded." That is open to interpretation by whoever presides over the case. Two people whispering to each other in a bar at a table by themselves would fall under "reasonable expectation of not being recorded or overhead." Two people shouting at each other at the bar would fall under "reasonable expectation of being recorded or overheard."
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post #155 of 182
but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.



Negates your reasonable expectation argument. it excludes any communication in a public gathering. Sorry bud, if the law was interpreted the way you see it every PI in California would be out of a job. Divorce lawyers would have a fit.
 
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post #156 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

i wonder if google can do something about this if more and more establishments starts banning the glass.

Like for example, if walmart starts banning people wearing oakleys, etc. doesn't oakley have grounds to sue for discrimination?

Nope. You could ban Oakleys in the same way you could ban wearing gang affiliated colors or clothing, which happens all the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

Are you sure? I just did a research about this a while ago, you can even videotape a police officer legally, that includes audio. I might be wrong though.

The anti-eavesdropping law in IL was shot down by the SCotUS a couple years ago and it had practically the same provisions as the California one. It applied to both police officers and civilians in public areas.
    
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post #157 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.



Negates your reasonable expectation argument. it excludes any communication in a public gathering. Sorry bud, if the law was interpreted the way you see it every PI in California would be out of a job. Divorce lawyers would have a fit.

While that is open to interpretation (cannot find any legal definitions or precedence except for the Georgia gun law case that was changed), definitions for it are certainly fluid. The closest hint I can find is here, where the following is defined separately from stores, malls, restaurants, museums, or parks:
Quote:
an auditorium, convention center, lecture hall, or other place of public gathering

So, it is very open to interpretation and can and will depend on the judge/jury you get as well as whatever legal precedence you can find and set forth. Additionally, in the US, the 2 party consent law only exists in 11 states. Meaning, in the other 39 states, only one party needs to be aware of the recording.
Edited by Tsumi - 3/8/14 at 11:58pm
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post #158 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

People under the influence aren't exactly known to be logical. A bar owner has every reason to want to minimize any chance of disturbances or fights.

Makes more sense.

Though, to remedy this, Google just needs to add an LED to indicate if the user is recording or not. Problem solved.
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post #159 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubers View Post

Makes more sense.

Though, to remedy this, Google just needs to add an LED to indicate if the user is recording or not. Problem solved.

There is a led indicator.
post #160 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostrider85 View Post

There is a led indicator.

Not on all models.

But, hey, you only get 20 minutes of recording time from the battery. lol
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