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[DS] RPCS3 Is A New PS3 Emulator (VIDEO) - Page 7

post #61 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChronoBodi View Post

Why is it hard to put in words how huge this step in ps3 emulation is?
Well this isn't really one step, but rather many smaller steps. Obviously there were iterations of the emulator before this point but this specific point in an emulators lifespan is the most critical and also the largest step forward. It shows that the CPU architecture is well emulated, that they have the majority of the decryption work done, texture decompression is working to some extent and the graphics infrastructure is actually working. It is even bigger of a step because the emulation is at a decent speed already; a good sign that things will be mostly playable when the code optimization begins. The PS3 is also by far the most difficult platform to emulate. Two different core architectures; 8 satellite cores and one primary core make it hugely complicated to emulate. Most single core console emulators sit in debugger land for many years with no video output just working on nailing rom calls and CPU instructions, with maybe a little work on SPU emulation. Then they work on decryption of commercial game data which usually takes upwards of 6 months and at the end of that there isn't any output yet, then they start working on texture decompression and some sort of video arbitration so they can at least get some visuals on screen to see what the result looks like (debugger land does a poor job of representing graphics)

Basically in the few short years this has been in development (3 to my knowledge, with a very small team) this type of progress is basically unprecedented. They are a ways off from compatibility listings, speed hacks and game patching on the fly but it's still intense.

This post also does a pretty poor job explaining just how huge all of that is. I mean this is massive.
    
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post #62 of 117
@Thread title

rcps3 isn't "new", as the devs have been working on it on and off for a few years now. There were several lulls in development, but they began a lot more active in 2013, and have been making a lot of rapid progress (as seen here.)

PS3's architecture is ridiculously complex, just like the PS2's was, so it will be many years before commercial games become truly playable at full-speed. I doubt current processors will even be able to do it.
post #63 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

@Thread title

rcps3 isn't "new", as the devs have been working on it on and off for a few years now. There were several lulls in development, but they began a lot more active in 2013, and have been making a lot of rapid progress (as seen here.)

PS3's architecture is ridiculously complex, just like the PS2's was, so it will be many years before commercial games become truly playable at full-speed. I doubt current processors will even be able to do it.

Some higher end ones might be, but not to well, PCSX2 and Dolphin use 4 cores to my analysis and dont use above that properly or efficiently, add to that the programming nightmares that are behind emulation, but if they could use 6 or the 8 processing cores that are speculated to be on Haswell-E maybe it would be do able on less intensive commercial games, perhaps some of the earlier games released for the system, I would think the emulation for the 360 could be simpler but you have to emulate 3 PPEs instead of 1PPE and 7-8 SPEs.

IMO I think we could see a 360 or PS3 emulator running simpler 3D games in 4-7 years time if development continues at a steady pace, and also hardware performance increments over the years,
taking into account of the previous emulators development cycle. (PCSX2, Dolphin)
They seem to have been around 10-12 years, the earliest years were probably some of the early stages we're seeing from rpcs3 or even just getting hardware emulation going without much if any video output.
Edited by TopicClocker - 3/8/14 at 1:31pm
post #64 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by TopicClocker View Post

IMO I think we could see a 360 or PS3 emulator running simpler 3D games in 4-7 years time if development continues at a steady pace, and also hardware performance increments over the years,
taking into account of the previous emulators development cycle. (PCSX2, Dolphin)

Now that you mentioned Dolphin, there's been one big question that's been floating in my head for a while now: how the heck were they able to successfully emulate the Wii so quickly!? I haven't read much into it, but considering it's supposedly part of the same generation as the X360 and PS3, the time-to-playability is phenomenal!
     
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post #65 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by firagabird View Post

Now that you mentioned Dolphin, there's been one big question that's been floating in my head for a while now: how the heck were they able to successfully emulate the Wii so quickly!? I haven't read much into it, but considering it's supposedly part of the same generation as the X360 and PS3, the time-to-playability is phenomenal!
Guess because the gamecube was already completely ready and they probably share a fairly similar instruction path.
post #66 of 117
This is somewhat surprising. I'd bet a PS4 emu won't be far off...
Quote:
Originally Posted by firagabird View Post

Now that you mentioned Dolphin, there's been one big question that's been floating in my head for a while now: how the heck were they able to successfully emulate the Wii so quickly!? I haven't read much into it, but considering it's supposedly part of the same generation as the X360 and PS3, the time-to-playability is phenomenal!
The CPU in the WIi is just a newer version/derivative from the GC. And it's the same story for the Wii U. And they've been the least complex machines per gen since the GC.
Edited by BlackVenom - 3/10/14 at 4:43am
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post #67 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by firagabird View Post

Now that you mentioned Dolphin, there's been one big question that's been floating in my head for a while now: how the heck were they able to successfully emulate the Wii so quickly!? I haven't read much into it, but considering it's supposedly part of the same generation as the X360 and PS3, the time-to-playability is phenomenal!

By reports that have leaked out, the Wii has essentially the same architecture as the Gamecube. It was practically an overclocked Gamecube. Single core PowerPC processor at 729 mhz and an ATI GPU clocked at 243 mhz. The Wii was very weak by comparison to the Xbox 360 and PS3, and would near nowhere near as much power to emulate. And given the close similarities to its predecessor, making the Wii emulator was basically extending the work done on the Gamecube emulator. Regardless, it still took until 2009 for successful emulation.
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post #68 of 117
What about wii u emulator
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post #69 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by MACH1NE View Post

What about wii u emulator


as far as i heard, the CPU is the same as original Wii, just OCed and 3 of them. They got that architecture emulated well...

the only problem is the GPU, it's a lot stronger compared to old Wii and the arch is very different as well.


If the Original Wii was just an OCed Gamecube, then the Wii U isn't just a GC anymore, other things has changed for it to be harder to emulate than it was for Wii.
     
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post #70 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaero252 View Post

Well this isn't really one step, but rather many smaller steps. Obviously there were iterations of the emulator before this point but this specific point in an emulators lifespan is the most critical and also the largest step forward. It shows that the CPU architecture is well emulated, that they have the majority of the decryption work done, texture decompression is working to some extent and the graphics infrastructure is actually working. It is even bigger of a step because the emulation is at a decent speed already; a good sign that things will be mostly playable when the code optimization begins. The PS3 is also by far the most difficult platform to emulate. Two different core architectures; 8 satellite cores and one primary core make it hugely complicated to emulate. Most single core console emulators sit in debugger land for many years with no video output just working on nailing rom calls and CPU instructions, with maybe a little work on SPU emulation. Then they work on decryption of commercial game data which usually takes upwards of 6 months and at the end of that there isn't any output yet, then they start working on texture decompression and some sort of video arbitration so they can at least get some visuals on screen to see what the result looks like (debugger land does a poor job of representing graphics)

Basically in the few short years this has been in development (3 to my knowledge, with a very small team) this type of progress is basically unprecedented. They are a ways off from compatibility listings, speed hacks and game patching on the fly but it's still intense.

This post also does a pretty poor job explaining just how huge all of that is. I mean this is massive.

Hmm.... Ps3 does remind me of the sega Saturn.... in terms of developers complaining about how hard it is to make games on.


The Saturn has to be emulated already long ago, right? it's 1994 console, lol.


Does these emulation developments take so long because they're volunteers mostly? I feel they would go slightly or maybe a bit faster if it was a commercial venture.
     
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