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Designing a Video Editing Workstation - Page 3

post #21 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaler View Post

Not true. Win 7 Home Premium 64 can support up to 16GB of RAM

Yep, I've got Home Premium 64 bit on another computer and it's handling 16 GB of RAM just fine.

I was debating Windows 7 Professional vs Home Premium. I was not able to find any advantage to using Professional which is why I chose Home Premium, but I know I could be missing something. I use Ultimate on my own desktop so that's what I mainly have experience with.
post #22 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karnoffel View Post

Can you elaborate on which monitor you're thinking about buying?

I'm glad you brought that up!

I've picked the Samsung Glossy Black 27" Widescreen LED Monitor. I don't have personal experience with it. In my own setup I use dual ViewSonic VG2427wm's (which are about four years old at this point.) I chose this particular monitor based on reviews, in particular on Newegg.

If anyone has any opinions on this particular monitor's suitability... or if a different monitor would be better, i'd really appreciate it!

SIDENOTE: The audio system, including sound card and speakers, is exactly what I have on my own computer and it's worked out perfectly for me in every respect.
post #23 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

OP hasn't responded here in 9 days. Pretty sure this is DOA.

I apologize for being absent! I became ill for about a week and then had to catch up on some other things.

I thought the end-user might back out for a while, but it looks like she is going through with what I come up with, with all of your help!
post #24 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLP View Post

I'm glad you brought that up!

I've picked the Samsung Glossy Black 27" Widescreen LED Monitor. I don't have personal experience with it. In my own setup I use dual ViewSonic VG2427wm's (which are about four years old at this point.) I chose this particular monitor based on reviews, in particular on Newegg.

If anyone has any opinions on this particular monitor's suitability... or if a different monitor would be better, i'd really appreciate it!

SIDENOTE: The audio system, including sound card and speakers, is exactly what I have on my own computer and it's worked out perfectly for me in every respect.

In regard to your monitor question, again I would STRONGLY advise getting a better monitor for any sort of semi or pro work the client is doing. All of these specs are REALLY cheap for getting into this kind of work. You just can't get by with these specs realistically and do work that is a serious hobby or something you are paid for.

When you do any sort of graphics work, be it video editing or pro 3D Art like myself, you MUST have a professional grade graphics monitor. You want to look for ones that have "full" or 98% color reproduction for sRGB and Adobe. Since you said the client wants to get into Adobe, this is simply a requirement. That means you are looking mainly at NEC, Lacie, Eizo brand monitors. A good 24 inch monitor will set you back around $1,200-1,500 for something that is a "pro graphics" model. I paid around $1,400 for mine several years ago, it was an NEC 2490WUXi model.

Also, you do NOT under any circumstances want to use any monitor that has a "glossy" screen. Anything that is glossy is not intended for any sort of graphics use. These are more general consumer and for viewing/consuming content like an average home user. Everyone I know that does 3D art work or video editing all use a "matte screen" monitor. You don't want any distortions, reflections, etc. when doing your work and a matte screen is the best and most accurate for this type of use.

Another MUST have is the use of color calibration hardware/software to get fully accurate results. Something like the "xrite eye one display 2" is very good to have. http://www.xrite.com/i1display-2

You really shouldn't go bigger than 24 inches for this sort of use. Most pro monitors are 24 inches for a reason. Your field of view and results are not as good if bigger. When or if you need more screen real estate above 24 inches, just get another 24 inch monitor. This pairs MUCH better for many reasons and you get a lot better results and work flow from it.

Hope that helps some too.
post #25 of 45
Thread Starter 
Thank you so much HiTekJeff! I honestly did not know most of that information about monitors for professional use. I'm off to do some research to find a more suitable model!
post #26 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattLP View Post

All of these posts have been immensely helpful, and I've taken everything that I've read here into account (especially comments by mdocod)

With all this in mind, and after talking with the end-user, I've modified the proposed specifications to the following:

Draft #2

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 v3 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo) Quad-Core CPU

Going to take this opportunity to clarify something:
Quote:
Originally Posted by levontraut View Post

QUESTION:

will an i7 be best for this application or would a xeon be better?

I am not sure how much of a price difference it would be.

The i7-4771 is nearly identical to the E3-1275V3 They share the exact same micro-architecture, cache sizes and clock speeds. The differences are subtle, with the E3 having support for ECC memory (on a supporting motherboard), and the i7 having more "consumer" oriented features on the iGPU (wireless display support). The i7 and E3 series are each offered in a number of different configurations of speeds/TDP etc, some with and some without the iGPU. One is only better than the other if we *need* one of the subtle differences offered by one of the other, otherwise, they are interchangeable as they perform exactly the same clock for clock because they are effectively the same. (The only exception being the E3-1220 series, which has hyperthreading disabled, as such it performs more like an i5).

Quote:
Motherboard: Supermicro X10SLL-F-O LGA1150 MicroATX Motherboard

Paying a lot here for "enterprise" class hardware that is packed full of features that will go mostly unused in a desktop media workstation. ECC memory support, IPMI, etc. Not useful.

I like the GIGABYTE GA-B85M-D3H, GIGABYTE GA-H87M-D3H, or ASUS H87M-PRO for this build. Less expensive, more useful features for a desktop workstation, good integrated sound.
Quote:
Power Supply: Corsair HX Series HX650 650 Watt Gold Certified Power Supply

The Seasonic 360W G series would be more appropriately sized for the build as listed (less expensive as well). Any more than a quality 450W PSU is going to be unnecessary unless it is being configured as a multi-GPU 4K transcoding behemeth. The machine as listed will rarely ever use more than ~200W.
Quote:
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaw X Series 16 GB (4x4GB)

Use a 2x8GB kit instead of a 4x4GB kit. There is no performance advantage to the 4x4GB on this platform. Furthermore, using 2x8GB will free up slots for future expansion if the needs of the machine change to something more memory intensive.

See: F3-1600C9D-16GXM 2x8GB kit, currently priced competitively at a popular eggy sort of place.
Quote:
Graphics Card: PNY nVidia GeForce GTX 650 2GB

A common misconception is that more VRAM is automatically beneficial. This is only the case when performing real-time interactive renders of large 3D projects in big creation/CAD applications. For video work, the amount of data that needs to be in VRAM at any given time is minuscule. The 1GB GTX650Ti is actually the better buy for about the same money.
Quote:
Audio Card: ASUS Xonar Essence STX 192Khz Audio Interface

There are motherboards with great built-in audio these days. I'd be very skeptical as to the usefulness of this component unless the editing station is being installed in a sound deadened room. There are many other more significant sources of distortion (both linear and non-linear) that would need to be addressed BEFORE concerning oneself with a "premium" analog IO device like this. Do a little reading around forums regarding the subject of integrated audio. The general "honest" consensus is that sound cards are largely useless given how good the on-board audio has become on most motherboards. I wouldn't suggest bothering with "fancy" sound-card unless it is needed for specialized sound IO. Cross that bridge when the need arises.
Quote:
CPU Cooler: Corsair Hydro Series H100i Extreme Liquid CPU Cooler

I don't see any benefit to strapping a radiator good for dissipating 300W to an 80W chip. It just brings more opportunity for failures (2 fans and a pump) and reduces air-flow over the VRMs. (it will run at such low speeds most of the time that there will be a significant drop in air-flow over the VRM area of the motherboard compared to a smaller HSF. Bigger isn't always better.

I would suggest the AXP100 from Thermalright. It's a "reasonable" size quiet cooler that doesn't hang a ton of weight way off the motherboard like other heatpipe coolers. It's a down-blowing design and is generally regarded as a high quality build. ~$60.
Quote:
System Drive: Samsung 840 250GB Internal Solid State Drive

Should be fine for a system/app drive. EVO/Pro? Either would be fine but the added cost of the Pro is probably unnecessary.
Quote:
RAID0 Storage Drive #1: Western Digital Black 3TB (7200 RPM / 64MB Cache)
RAID0 Storage Drive #2: Western Digital Black 3TB (7200 RPM / 64MB Cache)

Storage solutions for a video toaster have to be scaled properly for the bit-rates in question. A pair of big mechy drives in RAID0 could be way over or way under the sweet spot depending on format of the imported footage and whether or not it will be edited directly. (some people who work in RAW opt to convert all footage to compressed and then "link" the edits to the RAW footage for export afterwards, there's a name for this method that eludes me at the moment but it alleviates the need for large RAID configurations to work with RAW,)

I wouldn't bother making a RAID0 array if the system is only going to have 2 project drives in it. Too much potential downside for not enough upside. Just use one as the "media/footage" drive and the other as the "export/scratch/render-output" drive. The combined IO performance will be about the same. While "max" read/write speeds will be lower the actual real world performance is apt to be better with lower overall latency between read and write requests.

If you actually *need* the IO performance of RAID0 for the footage being used, then you'd probably have to look at some more sophisticated than a single 2-drive array anyway.
Quote:
Case: Corsair Obsidian Series 350D Black Aluminum MicroATX Mid Tower Case

looks great. Alternatives would be Fractal design cases, which also have that "professional" look going on.
Quote:
Monitor: Samsung Glossy Black 27" Widescreen LED Monitor

How much to invest here depends on quality of the content that is being edited to begin with, and the intended destination of the result. If we're dealing with RAW footage shot through $10,000 worth of glass, then that's one thing, if we're talking about a 50mbit prosumer handycam, that is quite another. I don't have any experience in modern high end monitors. Hopefully Jeff's insight will prove useful. I agree that multiple ~23" monitors is better for productivity than a single 27".

In my experience, cheap monitors are great at being cheap and functioning as monitors. Beyond that the color accuracy is pathetic. Even performing as much "calibration" as is possible by eye with calibration images, I can't get my 2 "cheapo" monitors to have a similar white point or color range no matter what I do. Not a big deal for my needs but it is annoying. For professional work I couldn't trust either of my displays, the differential between them alone tells me that it's impossible for either of them to be even close to "accurate."
Quote:
Speakers: M-Audio AV 40 Studio Reference Monitor Speakers

These probably represent a pretty good value. Add a few more zeros onto the price, THEN think about a dedicated sound card wink.gif (these are a good match to on-board audio IMO).
Edited by mdocod - 3/20/14 at 4:57pm
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
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A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
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logitec M235 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
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logitec M235 
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post #27 of 45
Thread Starter 
Mdocod, thank you so much for breaking that down the way you did. That is extremely helpful.

I think I'm going to opt for the ASUS mobo. I've had very good experience with them. I'll work through your other recommendations as well and probably make some of those adjustments.

I'm really pleased at how this is turning out!
post #28 of 45
Thread Starter 
I do have a question about RAID. It's not something I have much experience with and I don't use it in my own computer.

However the end-user is requesting the I/O performance boost that supposedly comes from it. I'd also like to include some redundancy if possible.

What would be the best way to implement this internally? I'll also point out the external options to the end-user.

Thank you!
post #29 of 45
On the Asus board....

Call or contact whomever you are ordering it from and have them make sure the board has BIOS version 1004 or later installed. If it doesn't, it might not recognize the E3. I like the Asus board of the options there best as well however, one advantage to the Gigabyte boards would be that they have E3 support going all the way back to initial release.


Without knowing the bit-rate of the footage that will be edited and the anticipated size of the projects there isn't any way to advise on drive options.
Edited by mdocod - 3/21/14 at 11:02am
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
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logitec M235 
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post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post


I STRONGLY advise against the FX-9590 for any professional workstation. It is a chip for AMD enthusiasts, overclockers, tuners, etc. It is sold on a razors edge of stability and dissipates almost twice as much power as an E5-1650V2. A dust load on the HSF on a long export could trash a whole nights worth of exporting. Not worth being that close to the limits.
I can't believe someone actually recommended a 9590 for professional graphics work. Yes, it will make some hay in video editing, but it's a factory overclock. No one who's doing professional work wants to be dealing with something like that; it would be a potential time bomb waiting to go off.

If you're doing professional work and go AMD, either stick with the tried-and-true, guaranteed reliable FX-8350 or get an Opteron. But really, you're better off with an Intel solution.
Quote:
The general "honest" consensus is that sound cards are largely useless given how good the on-board audio has become on most motherboards.
I guess that's true, if you're tone deaf.
Quote:
I was debating Windows 7 Professional vs Home Premium. I was not able to find any advantage to using Professional
For 99 percent of people, there isn't any. Home Premium is good enough.
     
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Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Kingston V300 Toshiba 2.5" laptop HDD, 1TB Micron C300 SSD Generic 2TB HDD WL2000GSA1672 (external) 
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Seagate Momentus XT 500GB ASUS DVD-RW Prolimatech Black Series Megahalems Linux Mint 18 Cinnamon "Sarah" 
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