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New Distro - "Ch..Ch...Ch..Ch...Changes" - Page 2

post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hundred Gunner View Post

Around 10 years ago when I first started out using Linux, I really wanted something like this because I found the regular filesystem layout really confusing compared to windows. I looked at it again a few months ago but saw that it hadn't been updated in years. Might be fun to see how it is.

People get so hung up on the Linux file system hierarchy but I honestly don't think end users even need to look past /home/ since package managers and environmental variables manage all of those stuff quite adequately. Needing to know where everything is is really more a Windows hangup since the end user is expected to also fill the role of a systems administrator on Windows (which they aren't on Linux).
post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

People get so hung up on the Linux file system hierarchy but I honestly don't think end users even need to look past /home/ since package managers and environmental variables manage all of those stuff quite adequately. Needing to know where everything is is really more a Windows hangup since the end user is expected to also fill the role of a systems administrator on Windows (which they aren't on Linux).

It's just two different philosophies. One is about having a central repository of packages and letting the system manage them, and the other is browsing online for a 3rd party program and giving it free reign over your system (letting it install and manage itself.)

But still, it is kind of nice to be able to have everything related to one program in one directory. Is there any distro that addresses that by automatically creating soft links or something?
post #13 of 35
Look like OS X to me
 
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post #14 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hundred Gunner View Post

It's just two different philosophies. One is about having a central repository of packages and letting the system manage them, and the other is browsing online for a 3rd party program and giving it free reign over your system (letting it install and manage itself.)
You're just reiterating what I'd said tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hundred Gunner View Post

But still, it is kind of nice to be able to have everything related to one program in one directory. Is there any distro that addresses that by automatically creating soft links or something?
Some distros do already do this with larger programs. For example Firefox on ArchLinux:
Code:
$ ls -l `which firefox`
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Feb  4 23:05 /usr/bin/firefox -> /usr/lib/firefox/firefox
post #15 of 35
I've always liked the idea. Windows 7's file hierarchy has always made sense to me from a higher level view. The FHS works, and it makes sense when you figure it out, but I think it's overly complicated for a desktop OS.
post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrari8608 View Post

I've always liked the idea. Windows 7's file hierarchy has always made sense to me from a higher level view. The FHS works, and it makes sense when you figure it out, but I think it's overly complicated for a desktop OS.

But desktop users never need to look outside of /home. It's like saying CISC is overly complicated for tablets, but since end users are never going to be writing assembly nobody ever argues about the complexity of CISC vs RISC CPUs for end user devices (bar things like power draw). So what difference does it make if users understand FHS?

Or to put things another way, people cope with smart phones, set top boxes, routers and satnavs just fine.
post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

But desktop users never need to look outside of /home.

I absolutely agree. And really, aside from a very few configuration files, I rarely venture outside of home on my own home machines as well. There's just no need to most of the time.
post #18 of 35
Less interested in GoBo more interested in Bedrock Linux; http://bedrocklinux.org/
    
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post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaero252 View Post

Less interested in GoBo more interested in Bedrock Linux; http://bedrocklinux.org/

Been following Bedrock since it appeared, always looked like a decent project to me thumb.gif
post #20 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaero252 View Post

Less interested in GoBo more interested in Bedrock Linux; http://bedrocklinux.org/

Agreed. Bedrock is interesting, and it's fine to interpret this thread anyway anyone wants. However my purpose in starting it was to get a feel for how many don't mind changing very basic structures of Linux and how many recoil against it. On one level I embrace the freedom inherent in Linux to do whatever one wants with it, but I will likely never go there.

GoBo is IMHO yet another attempt to make deep and fundamental changes to the structure of Linux without much return on investment. Maybe such small steps evolve into benefits we can't see yet, but if so, that's for others, not me. I'm perfectly happy with Linux that stays as close as possible to Unix ways. If others want to see it evolve into a sort of Free Windows that's fine as long as that doesn't isolate and minimize what is available for vanilla.

Major changes like this are a sort of double-edged sword. Example - no one can reasonably deny that Ubuntu has had the very positive effect of bringing large numbers of new users to Linux increasing interest in use and development, good for us all. At the very same time it has also created a situation where it is viewed by many as some de facto standard, making it somewhat more difficult for other distros. Example - LinuxSteam was basically written for Ubuntu 12. Thankfully Steam handles "non-supported" distros reasonably well with system checks and updates but still must create a set of libraries for Ubuntu 32 and Ubuntu 64 on whatever distro you install Steam to do so. It isn't a step too far to stop bothering to accommodate once the numbers get big enough.

Systemd has similar deep changes threatening to cause more vanilla distros to redesign (such as with the udev issue) to stay vanilla. It is certainly interesting (and maybe a little comforting) that Ubuntu not only "plays" but "gets played" in return, (since they had to essentially abandon Upstart and embrace systemd) but nevertheless there is some risk that some distro will become so entrenched that developers will write for it and leave more traditionally *Nix varieties out in the cold. The odds of this may not be very high with so many players, but the stakes could be very high. In the marketplace it isn't always The Best that thrives. Often it's just the lowest common denominator that wins out.

What constitutes deep changes can also be somewhat subjective. Example - whether your vehicle of choice has carburetion or fuel injection, while an important difference requires no change in how you drive. Oddly, taking the shifter off the floor and putting it on the dash, the steering column, or a paddle just off the steering wheel isn't a big adjustment while perhaps changing the orientation of brake and accelerator might. Putting the driver in the backseat certainly seems like it would be a major adjustment. Having an auto-driver with no manual override most certainly would for most be a step too far, beyond mere taxi service.

The next couple years seems like they will see the biggest changes in Linux since it's inception, maybe bigger than all that have gone before combined. I'm just not in favor of "throwing out the baby with the bathwater" and watch such trends carefully.
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