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[TC] The Console Market Is In Crisis - Page 12

post #111 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

There is no reason to believe there will be a terribly significant optimization boost from this generation. This gen is much easier to code for than a PS3. Besides, simple increases in average polygon level over time will erase any optimizations made.

it's too early to say. there's more factors involved than whether it's easy to code for. also, last i checked maintaining the same fps while increasing polygon count=performance increase
post #112 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

You stated that multiplayer killzone was at a lower resolution due to increased particle effects. That's a sign of a hardware bottleneck, which is a hardware issue. Choosing to develop your game using two separate resolutions rather than optimizing your code or game is a sign of lazy development.

Or it is a sign that they wanted to keep the game looking good and the game looked better going with a lower res with better effects vs higher res and less effects. A good example of resolution not being the most important thing is Watch Dogs, the new trailer has so many effects that are gone compared to what was shown in 2013, but the game runs at 1080p. I would much rather have a lower resolution and get back those effects which helped add to the immersion of the game. My comment was directed at your statement that if a developer lowers resolution it means they are lazy which in my example is not always the case. Also another example of a dev team having to lower the quality in multiplayer vs single player is Halo 3 and Bungie is not a lazy developer.
post #113 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

it's too early to say. there's more factors involved than whether it's easy to code for. also, last i checked maintaining the same fps while increasing polygon count=performance increase
I doubt we'll even see the same fps though.
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post #114 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1990 View Post

Or it is a sign that they wanted to keep the game looking good and the game looked better going with a lower res with better effects vs higher res and less effects. A good example of resolution not being the most important thing is Watch Dogs, the new trailer has so many effects that are gone compared to what was shown in 2013, but the game runs at 1080p. I would much rather have a lower resolution and get back those effects which helped add to the immersion of the game. My comment was directed at your statement that if a developer lowers resolution it means they are lazy which in my example is not always the case.
Your example proves my case. Rather than do the tough work of optimization, they simply decided to ship "as-is" and instead run social media damage control.
Quote:
Also another example of a dev team having to lower the quality in multiplayer vs single player is Halo 3 and Bungie is not a lazy developer.
I've never heard anyone say anything good about Bungie development, and I play D&D with Microsofties weekly.
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post #115 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

People get Pc's to run everything on high do they not? The hardware from 2008, struggled with this, even on medium it could not maintain 60fps. So now you got an 8800gtx with a q6600, that runs gta iv at 40fps on med-high, and the cost of this pc was more than double of the console, which has 2005's hardware..(the 8800gtx and the ultra, were the highest cards at the time if i remember correctly). The cards themselves were more $$$ than the consoles...

Sure gta iv runs like crap. But hardware from 2005 running bf3, bad company 2, gta V, cod ghosts?

What hardware from 2005 on the pc is going to run that?

Medium on what? Oblivion it was all high with FSAA/etc, if GTA 4 is the only example you can provide (a pretty biased one at that because of its notoriety for being probably one of the worst optimized ports made for PC) then I've made my point. I'm not debating performance per dollar here but arguing the fact that PC hardware matched and excelled past last gen consoles when they came out, the 9800GX2 and 7950GT proved this.

I've used my 8800 GTS for BF3 and even high/med settings I've gotten more than 20fps easy, drop down to low/med (Still better looking than console) and it's 30+ @ 1080p. Meanwhile consoles average 30 fps if they're lucky at lower resolutions and graphical settings not to mention a cap on that fps too.

8800GTX & 7950 GT = 2006
Edited by Azefore - 3/9/14 at 10:04pm
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post #116 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azefore View Post

Medium on what? Oblivion it was all high with FSAA/etc, if GTA 4 is the only example you can provide (a pretty biased one at that because of its notoriety for being probably one of the worst optimized ports made for PC) then I've made my point. I'm not debating performance per dollar here but arguing the fact that PC hardware matched and excelled past last gen consoles when they came out, the 9800GX2 and 7950GT proved this.

I've used my 8800 GTS for BF3 and even high/med settings I've gotten more than 20fps easy, drop down to low/med (Still better looking than console) and it's 30+ @ 1080p. Meanwhile consoles average 30 fps if they're lucky at lower resolutions and graphical settings not to mention a cap on that fps too.

8800GTX & 7950 GT = 2006

There's no way in hell the 7950gt will run bf3 or cod ghosts. I had that card years ago..its a weak card by todays standards, could run bf2 sure..
Did you forget the 8800gtx price tag? it was around 800$..the 7950 was around 300..

The 360 priced at 399$ on its release date in 2005..Wow you've gotten more than 20fps "easy" on high/med. Some 360 games run at 60fps if you haven't noticed, such as MW2, a few other COD titles, and dead rising, probably quite a few more but not familiar with the others. They all run at 60fps on the 360. GTA V maintains around 30fps, and it's definitely not a "low" setting. Probably somewhere in the med range without anti aliasing. In anycase, no way your 7950 would run GTA V when it comes out for PC nor would it even launch bf3 or cod ghosts
Edited by felon - 3/9/14 at 11:19pm
post #117 of 142
I'm not willing to judge whether the success of the PS4, or that the Xbox One is selling faster than the 360 did in their first few months signals a revitalization of the console market like you'll see on Neogaf or the console subreddits. They are producing way more systems at launch than previous releases. All the previous launches were hard to find systems for months after launch. I would bet they would sell this fast if they had a million consoles being produced a month. The only one this generation selling out is the PS4 and now coming into March it is increasingly easy to come across especially off Amazon. The only I would bet on coming out of this fairly well off is the PlayStation, but that won't be because the market has increased in size, but because it's eaten the crust of the other consoles.

I bought a PS4 day one. I like it, but specialized entertainment devices aren't a place of growth anymore. PC's can attract people (not saying the PC market will grow, but the PC gaming market) that do work on computers, or are hobbyist/learners in programming, and art/design/photography/3d modeling. Phones are versatile and ever evolving creating excitement year after year taking mind share that would have once been dominated by consoles. I feel like the Mobile World Congress grabs more headlines than E3 now. I don't think console cycles can last 7-8 years anymore. Too many exiting new consumer electronics come out every year to compete exposure. It's not a problem about hitting 1080p or 60fps, most people won't know about something they don't have or already have knowledge of. It's about sustaining the excitement to sell through a whole console generation worth of other consumer entertainment devices vying for attention. With India, China, and Latin America increasingly maturing as markets you would expect sales to rise generation over generation. Right now the PS4 looks like it could do that but it is hard to tell with there only being a few months of sales with more stock available compare to when the PS3/360 launches occurred. It's also hard to tell how much excitement there is for these new consoles since I'm no longer in middle school/high school. I doubt an amazing PS4 life can make up for all the lagging sales of the Xbox and Wii. The 3DS won't hit the DS sales and the Vita won't hit the PSP sales. Can't be so static in a technology market that is thriving on big new devices every year

Consoles need something more to bring in new gamers. I think they should try to replace cable boxes while not being attached to current cable boxes. I think the announced Sony IPTV service has potential if it has no requirements for current cable/sattelite subsriptions. This is where I think SteamOS/boxes has great potential. If they can get an IPTV service from anyone it doesn't matter -Google, Intel, Amazon - whoever actually gets one up and running rather than the yearly rumors, this would add to the already general use of a PC platform that could lure in potential gamers especially now that premade PCs will be coming with TV friendly interfaces and form size. That may be dependent on Valve enforcing some standard on Steam machines like Intel has with Ultrabooks so we don't have get the Vista premade PCs/laptops with 512mb of memory OEM experience.
Edited by KingGreasy - 3/10/14 at 12:19am
post #118 of 142
Personally I'd rather buy a PS2 over a PS3, XBox 360 or the newer ones. There are some epic games for the PS2 that you can't get on newer titles and they would keep me happy for years, and then there's the price of the older consoles. With PS3 going for 100 USD here and a PS2 for half that price there's no way I'd get one of these newer ones. Not only am I talking from my own 'PC master race' gaming perspective but also from the perspective of the millions who are still stuck in this perpetual depression that our overlord banksters have plunged us into with their puppet politicians.
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post #119 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by felon View Post

There's no way in hell the 7950gt will run bf3 or cod ghosts. I had that card years ago..its a weak card by todays standards, could run bf2 sure..
Did you forget the 8800gtx price tag? it was around 800$..the 7950 was around 300..

The 360 priced at 399$ on its release date in 2005..Wow you've gotten more than 20fps "easy" on high/med. Some 360 games run at 60fps if you haven't noticed, such as MW2, a few other COD titles, and dead rising, probably quite a few more but not familiar with the others. They all run at 60fps on the 360. GTA V maintains around 30fps, and it's definitely not a "low" setting. Probably somewhere in the med range without anti aliasing. In anycase, no way your 7950 would run GTA V when it comes out for PC nor would it even launch bf3 or cod ghosts

Are you trying real hard to troll the priceperdollar point here when I said I'm not arguing it?, also I never said a 7950GT would do BF3.

If only a few run @ 60 fps (which do dip to 30-40fps) then it's still a limited selection while almost all PC games can have their refresh rate changed to user preference.

I'll stuff my old rig back together just for lols, a Athlon X2 6400+ BE and a 8800 GTS, I remember playing Crysis decently on that too. Also you can't presume a 7950, or 8800 GTS/GTX won't run GTA V on matching settings unless you try so that's a futile point at this time.

Also yah above 20fps on med/high is good considering it's worlds better looking than the console version which is limited to 30fps if it can maintain it, that is.
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post #120 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azefore View Post

Are you trying real hard to troll the priceperdollar point here when I said I'm not arguing it?, also I never said a 7950GT would do BF3.

If only a few run @ 60 fps (which do dip to 30-40fps) then it's still a limited selection while almost all PC games can have their refresh rate changed to user preference.

I'll stuff my old rig back together just for lols, a Athlon X2 6400+ BE and a 8800 GTS, I remember playing Crysis decently on that too. Also you can't presume a 7950, or 8800 GTS/GTX won't run GTA V on matching settings unless you try so that's a futile point at this time.

Also yah above 20fps on med/high is good considering it's worlds better looking than the console version which is limited to 30fps if it can maintain it, that is.

To be honest I just skim through the replies. The price point is one of the most important factors, you cannot choose to "not argue it", just because it doesn't suit you. Theres no way a 7950 will run BAD COMPANY 2 let alone gta v
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