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[TC] The Console Market Is In Crisis - Page 7

post #61 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

My PC can play all but the most graphics intensive games at 60 fps and 1080p. After sweetFX injection, RadeonPro overclocking, and strobelight beta application, I can play most games on max (except for levels of AA that are irrelevant at this point) at 120fps, only dipping below 100 in crowded areas.

Sony and MS can create a console that runs every game made for it at 1080/60. They decided not to. They are reaping what the sowed with that decision.

This is 100% false.

Sony and Microsoft make the consoles first. There are zero games out for them when they are created. You can't make hardware that runs "every game made for it" at a specific resolution/frame rate when those games haven't even been created yet. Again, if Sony/MS decided to just cram in more hardware, developers would push the hardware further, and might still sacrifice resolution/framerate to do so.

And yes, they are reaping what they sowed with their decision. I'm sure Sony especially is reeling as their affordable console is flying off the shelves because some PC enthusiasts on a tech forum are complaining that not every developer is making every game 60FPS/1080p on a $400 game console.
post #62 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Maybe they shouldnt have made such crappy consoles and more people would be interested in them instead of moving to PC or looking to get a Steambox.

Console players want an easy to use device that plays their favorite franchises. If they have to bother with viruses, drivers, gamepad issues, multiplayer unfriendly and heavy machines with lots of stuff attached they will choose the console almost all the time.

If the Steam Box is to take off it will be because ppl won't have to bother with PC stuff like the listed above.

Also, it's not about the power of the device. Look at the Wii and how successful it was with subpar hardware. PC enthusiast don't have a clue about what players want.
post #63 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooddrunk View Post

You're comparing 700 dollars worth of hardware to 400 and 500 dollars worth of hardware and software. Sony and MS could of released a beast console, no doubt. However, nobody is going to pay 700 dollars for a console now days with the cost of software, dlc, and p2w crap.

Its going to be a while before this generation gains momentum. Compare the graphics of release titles of the previous gen to EoL titles. In 3 years we're going to look back at these release titles and laugh at them.

You could go more in depth with analysis of resolutions and such, but a lot of devs will take a huge resolution decrease over halving the framerate as long as you don't dip into sub 720p. Many consoles are designed to be played on a 42 inch 1080p tv sitting 10-15 feet away. The differences between 1080p and 720p become minimal depending on the pace of the game, while framerates remain equally noticeable.
I'm comparing 700 dollars worth of 2012 hardware capable of things the PS4 couldn't even dream of to 500 dollars worth of inferior 2013 hardware. The software is a wash, since PC hardware requires software as well.

500 dollars for lower quality parts that are capable of doing less but can still provide 1080p/60 fps? This not only doesn't seem unreasonable, it seems like a bare minimum.

DLC and P2W are red herring.. They exist in both worlds, just like firmware/OS costs (55 dollars for Win 8, btw. 40 for W7, 15 for the upgrade). I also don't buy the EoL angle. These consoles are x86. You don't need to do a lot to optimize for them, and in 3 years the increases in graphical quality demands will overshadow optimization benefits.

Devs take the resolution decrease because it means less work for them, nothing more.
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post #64 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike395 View Post

This is 100% false.

Sony and Microsoft make the consoles first. There are zero games out for them when they are created. You can't make hardware that runs "every game made for it" at a specific resolution/frame rate when those games haven't even been created yet. Again, if Sony/MS decided to just cram in more hardware, developers would push the hardware further, and might still sacrifice resolution/framerate to do so.
That's silly. You can determine what hardware will be able to provide 1080/60 using DirectX 11.x. You can't push the PS4 into using DirectX 12, and you can lock the fps to 60. There's nothing the developer can do if the only bottlenecks are software/firmware caps. You can't push the hardware into using anything Sony or MS doesn't put into the device. It doesn't matter if the game has been created or not. DirectX 11 is old hat at MS. They know better than the game developers what their device is capable of, as does Sony.
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post #65 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

That's silly. You can determine what hardware will be able to provide 1080/60 using DirectX 11.x. You can't push the PS4 into using DirectX 12, and you can lock the fps to 60. There's nothing the developer can do if the only bottlenecks are software/firmware caps. You can't push the hardware into using anything Sony or MS doesn't put into the device. It doesn't matter if the game has been created or not. DirectX 11 is old hat at MS. They know better than the game developers what their device is capable of, as does Sony.

sure they know that, but they have to make a device that actually sells, which means keeping the price low. the ps4 is sold more or less at cost. after last generation, sony knows people don't want to spend $600 for a device. they did the best they could given their constraints. the xb1 is a different story
post #66 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

I'm comparing 700 dollars worth of 2012 hardware capable of things the PS4 couldn't even dream of to 500 dollars worth of inferior 2013 hardware. The software is a wash, since PC hardware requires software as well.

500 dollars for lower quality parts that are capable of doing less but can still provide 1080p/60 fps? This not only doesn't seem unreasonable, it seems like a bare minimum.

DLC and P2W are red herring.. They exist in both worlds, just like firmware/OS costs (55 dollars for Win 8, btw. 40 for W7, 15 for the upgrade). I also don't buy the EoL angle. These consoles are x86. You don't need to do a lot to optimize for them, and in 3 years the increases in graphical quality demands will overshadow optimization benefits.

Devs take the resolution decrease because it means less work for them, nothing more.
Software isn't a wash... you don't get windows when you buy any PC part.

Just because they are x86 doesn't mean the devs can squat and produce a AAA best seller. You still deal with APIs, sony has theirs and xbox one has a heavily modified DX11.2. Remind you, that all of these devs are coming from having to program the xbox 360 and PS3, which had completely different architectures from each other and the new consoles. Graphically, we're at a plateau. Gaming is massively inflated with AAA games needing the time and resources that exceed blockbuster movies. Combine that with an entitled consumer base with one noose around your neck, with investors and publishers having another noose it really isn't surprising that we're plateauing graphically.
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post #67 of 142
The winner of the 8th Generation Gaming Platform?





















PC. biggrin.gif
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post #68 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

sure they know that, but they have to make a device that actually sells, which means keeping the price low. the ps4 is sold more or less at cost. after last generation, sony knows people don't want to spend $600 for a device. they did the best they could given their constraints. the xb1 is a different story
If 400 dollars is at cost for a PS4, especially after wholesale prices and bulk discounts are factored in, then Sony's problems are obvious and larger than ever imagined. Most of the monetary breakdowns you see on the internet use retail prices, and even if they use wholesale prices they've never seen the contract between Sony and AMD/whoever, so they don't know what additional bulk discount they scored by buying millions of the item in question.

Most electronics cost a fraction of what people think they do. The mark up and the obfuscation to hide that mark up is insane.
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post #69 of 142
OCN, where assumptions are true and everyone is a finance major, with a masters in electrical engineering, and Six Sigma certified production planner. whistle.gif
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post #70 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

I'm comparing 700 dollars worth of 2012 hardware capable of things the PS4 couldn't even dream of to 500 dollars worth of inferior 2013 hardware. The software is a wash, since PC hardware requires software as well.

500 dollars for lower quality parts that are capable of doing less but can still provide 1080p/60 fps? This not only doesn't seem unreasonable, it seems like a bare minimum.

DLC and P2W are red herring.. They exist in both worlds, just like firmware/OS costs (55 dollars for Win 8, btw. 40 for W7, 15 for the upgrade). I also don't buy the EoL angle. These consoles are x86. You don't need to do a lot to optimize for them, and in 3 years the increases in graphical quality demands will overshadow optimization benefits.

Devs take the resolution decrease because it means less work for them, nothing more.

The last part of your post is false and I will use Killzone Shadow Fall as an example, the single player plays at 1080p native, the multiplayer plays at 960x1080, the reason why they took the decrease in resolution is so that they could still have all the nice particle effects and whatnot and the game to play smoothly instead of having a game at 1080 but with less effects which ends up making the game look worse. It had nothing to do with less work.
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