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[TC] The Console Market Is In Crisis - Page 8

post #71 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

If 400 dollars is at cost for a PS4, especially after wholesale prices and bulk discounts are factored in, then Sony's problems are obvious and larger than ever imagined. Most of the monetary breakdowns you see on the internet use retail prices, and even if they use wholesale prices they've never seen the contract between Sony and AMD/whoever, so they don't know what additional bulk discount they scored by buying millions of the item in question.

Most electronics cost a fraction of what people think they do. The mark up and the obfuscation to hide that mark up is insane.

i'm sure they make a small profit. just saying, it's basically a $400 pc. i doubt you could build a more powerful system for the price, plus it will get optimization
post #72 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

I'm comparing 700 dollars worth of 2012 hardware capable of things the PS4 couldn't even dream of to 500 dollars worth of inferior 2013 hardware. The software is a wash, since PC hardware requires software as well.

500 dollars for lower quality parts that are capable of doing less but can still provide 1080p/60 fps? This not only doesn't seem unreasonable, it seems like a bare minimum.

DLC and P2W are red herring.. They exist in both worlds, just like firmware/OS costs (55 dollars for Win 8, btw. 40 for W7, 15 for the upgrade). I also don't buy the EoL angle. These consoles are x86. You don't need to do a lot to optimize for them, and in 3 years the increases in graphical quality demands will overshadow optimization benefits.

Devs take the resolution decrease because it means less work for them, nothing more.

You're talking about a $200 difference, and who knows what parts you reused. $200 is not an insignificant difference for most console buyers.
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post #73 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooddrunk View Post

Software isn't a wash... you don't get windows when you buy any PC part.
Sure, but the difference in costs to MS is nothing (and you can get W8 for 40 dollars right now pretty easily). It is a wash for the comparison, because you (and the developers) are paying roughly the same software costs for either product.
Quote:
Just because they are x86 doesn't mean the devs can squat and produce a AAA best seller. You still deal with APIs, sony has theirs and xbox one has a heavily modified DX11.2. Remind you, that all of these devs are coming from having to program the xbox 360 and PS3, which had completely different architectures from each other and the new consoles. Graphically, we're at a plateau. Gaming is massively inflated with AAA games needing the time and resources that exceed blockbuster movies. Combine that with an entitled consumer base with one noose around your neck, with investors and publishers having another noose it really isn't surprising that we're plateauing graphically.
APIs are also a red herring. Every developer out there has had to deal with multiple APIs for well over a decade now. Any developer who has difficulty dealing with a new API is a developer I don't want to support with my money.
Graphically, we are in our infancy. AAA titles inflate their numbers (especially their labor numbers for 3D) to try and justify raising the base cost of their games. Developers are not dealing with any nooses around their neck. They're complaining that their Shantung silk ties with gold inlay are nooses. Look at Activision/Blizzard. AAA development houses have the free capital to outright buy each other. You don't have tens of billions of dollars just sitting in your bank accounts if you're actually making video games with budgets that exceed that of a blockbuster movie.
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post #74 of 142
What a terrible click-bait article that was.
Edited by Jinto - 3/9/14 at 4:49pm
post #75 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomer1990 View Post

The last part of your post is false and I will use Killzone Shadow Fall as an example, the single player plays at 1080p native, the multiplayer plays at 960x1080, the reason why they took the decrease in resolution is so that they could still have all the nice particle effects and whatnot and the game to play smoothly instead of having a game at 1080 but with less effects which ends up making the game look worse. It had nothing to do with less work.
If particle effects are lowering your resolution than it absolutely is a problem with inferior hardware.
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post #76 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

You're talking about a $200 difference, and who knows what parts you reused. $200 is not an insignificant difference for most console buyers.
We all know what parts I reused. The parts list is in my sig, after all. This is also superior hardware than what is in the PS4, so of course it costs more. I could have easily saved more than 200 dollars if what I was aiming for was console quality. It is also a year older, and parts depreciation makes the costs pretty comparable. The 7870 OC plummeted in price after I bought it.
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post #77 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

Developers are not dealing with any nooses around their neck. They're complaining that their Shantung silk ties with gold inlay are nooses.
Alright, well you're free to believe what you want. But after that I really can't take you seriously. Talk to some guys in the industry. It isn't butterflies and unicorns.
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post #78 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blooddrunk View Post

Alright, well you're free to believe what you want. But after that I really can't take you seriously. Talk to some guys in the industry. It isn't butterflies and unicorns.
I'd go into length about my links to the industry, but I'm not sure they are relevant to the topic at hand. Let's just say that the majority of tech people on the West Coast are at furthest only 3 degrees of separation from each other. Where I live you can't throw a rock without hitting a MS, Google, ArenaNet, Expedia, T-Mobile, etc. employee.
The industry isn't all butterflies and unicorns, no. But it is fat with cash and still makes money hand over fist.
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post #79 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chakravant View Post

That's silly. You can determine what hardware will be able to provide 1080/60 using DirectX 11.x. You can't push the PS4 into using DirectX 12, and you can lock the fps to 60. There's nothing the developer can do if the only bottlenecks are software/firmware caps. You can't push the hardware into using anything Sony or MS doesn't put into the device. It doesn't matter if the game has been created or not. DirectX 11 is old hat at MS. They know better than the game developers what their device is capable of, as does Sony.

Of course it matters if the game has been created or not, because it's up to the developers what they want to prioritize with their own game.

Developer A: "I'm going to make my game run at 1080p/60fps on current generation consoles."

Developer B: "I'm going to sacrifice framerate/resolution for other demanding aspects."

Sony and Microsoft can't stop developers from making these decisions, so I'm not sure what you expect. The current consoles are capable of 1080p/60fps, PS4 especially does it quite a bit already. If developers don't want to make a game that can run at that frame rate and resolution on these consoles, and would rather prioritize other aspects of their game, then that's their own business. But MS/Sony aren't just going to cram in the most expensive hardware they possibly can just in case developers decide to make games that are too demanding to do so. This would be a ridiculous business decision.
post #80 of 142
the whole obsession with graphics is whats killing the video game and movie industries. turns out when you have $100m product you have to market to the whole world, more or less. and it turns out when you reach that scale, the lowest common denominator is pretty...low. that's why we get all these stupid superhero movies, remakes, and cod clones (everything must be some type of shooter!)

i don't think indie games are the answer either. most of the mechanics for indie games are crap. you need a quality team for quality mechanics most of the time, it's too much to ask for 1 or 2 people to do. indie games don't compare to the games of the 90s or early 2000s. the only positive is that today games are more polished and less glitchy, but that was more or less inevitable. the gaming and movie industries are in the toilet and there is not much we can do realistically
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