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[wccftech] Intel Haswell-E X99 Chipset “Wellsburg” Details Leaked - Page 21

post #201 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Well I don't know about the PCIe 3.0 being an issue quite yet, but no SATA EXPRESS? What are they thinking? There's already a huge bottleneck with SSD's. And don't give me that "nobody will notice the difference" baloney. People always do. That'w why the computing in 2004 is ancient compared to 2014 and why 2014 will seem ancient in 2024 when SSD read/write speeds are approaching 6tb/s or something "crazy" like that. It might not matter right now, but no SATA Express will definitely be a huge mark against X99 in a year or so. I wish Intel would at least try to future proof their enthusiast platform..

You're the one that doesn't know anything. Random reads and writes are still yet to exceed SATA 2 speeds (that's 3.0 gbps), let alone exceed SATA 3 (6 gbps), and random reads and writes are what mater for gaming and OS usage. And no, RAID 0 does not help with random reads and writes. Faster interface speeds only help when you're transferring massive files from SSDs to SSDs (sequential read and write).
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post #202 of 253
...and if you're doing that then a short-stroked HDD array might be more cost effective. PCIe SSDs will be great since faster controllers will be built and speed boosts should, in theory, affect random speeds too. However, I myself don't think I would notice a difference going from SATA I to RAID 0 SATA III using the same SSD model and won't be an early adopter for M.2 drives (probably, there might be one awesome flagship). 10 SATA III ports is fine and will be for quite some time.
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post #203 of 253
If anything staying on sata 3 saves me money because I look to max out the interface, with sata 3 I can do that with a couple 840 Pros and call it a day.
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post #204 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

...and if you're doing that then a short-stroked HDD array might be more cost effective. PCIe SSDs will be great since faster controllers will be built and speed boosts should, in theory, affect random speeds too. However, I myself don't think I would notice a difference going from SATA I to RAID 0 SATA III using the same SSD model and won't be an early adopter for M.2 drives (probably, there might be one awesome flagship). 10 SATA III ports is fine and will be for quite some time.

Yes, they will improve, but remember, after what, 4 generations now, they still haven't broken past SATA2 in random reads and writes, who knows how long it'll take to break past SATA3.
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post #205 of 253
Four times the bandwidth is available. Manufacturers will try to produce the first 2GBHz SSD and random speeds should at least approach SATA III. Epeen has some nice side effects.
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post #206 of 253
Definitely controller and firmware are big helps but nand performance is what it is. I hope you're right but it seems unlikely to me small block randoms will saturate sata 3 anytime soon.
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post #207 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Well I don't know about the PCIe 3.0 being an issue quite yet, but no SATA EXPRESS? What are they thinking? There's already a huge bottleneck with SSD's. And don't give me that "nobody will notice the difference" baloney. People always do. That'w why the computing in 2004 is ancient compared to 2014 and why 2014 will seem ancient in 2024 when SSD read/write speeds are approaching 6tb/s or something "crazy" like that. It might not matter right now, but no SATA Express will definitely be a huge mark against X99 in a year or so. I wish Intel would at least try to future proof their enthusiast platform..

SATA-e is just a place holder, all it does is connect SATA ports along with the potential to connect to PCI-e lanes, from what I understand, where those SATA ports and PCI-e lanes come from doesn't really matter...and can even be to our benefit if they don't tap the PCI-e lanes from the chipset (which are often only PCI-e 2.0); e.g. from what I gather, all SATA-e will do is siphon off some PCI-e lanes so its not something that the chipset has to support anyway, thus motherboard manufacturers will even have the option of tapping the PCI-e 3.0 lanes from the Haswell-E CPU instead of the PCI-e 2.0 lanes from the X99 PCH; that would mean 2x PCI-e 3.0 would net us ~1560MB/s of bandwidth instead of ~780MBps from 2x PCI-e 2.0, a ~180% performance improvement over 1 x SATA6 instead of just 40% if its from PCI-e 2.0 lanes.

Also, the only thing SATA-e gives us that PCI-e cannot (at least not so easily) is the ability to avoid taking up expansion slot space (it still consumes the PCI-e lanes) maybe a big deal for those who are running more than 2 GPUs and/or mATX or smaller (although I doubt we'll see X99 in official ITX, maybe Shuttle will make something crazy, and who knows how long before Apple makes a Haswell-E trashcan), but I'd imagine it wouldn't be too hard to find a spare slot at the top or bottom of the board for a PCI-e SSD card

And as long as X99 does actually deliver up to 10xSATA6 ports, I doubt we'll have many people complaining if the early boards are completely devoid of SATA-e, just load up on a bunch of inexpensive SATA6 drives and RAID0 and/or 5 away.
Edited by bojinglebells - 3/13/14 at 10:56pm
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post #208 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

You're the one that doesn't know anything. Random reads and writes are still yet to exceed SATA 2 speeds (that's 3.0 gbps), let alone exceed SATA 3 (6 gbps), and random reads and writes are what mater for gaming and OS usage. And no, RAID 0 does not help with random reads and writes. Faster interface speeds only help when you're transferring massive files from SSDs to SSDs (sequential read and write).

When people say things in this tone it's either because they're extremely ignorant, or correct. I'm gonna say you're correct here. I didn't actually know what types of reads and writes were most important to actual OS speeds, and I didn't even think about a specific type of read not being able to pass 6/gbps, I just thought SSD's have reached the limit of performance on 6Gbps, it's a bottleneck. Sorry!

I guess I'm a bit sore about Intel teasing us with new tech only to say "it's not a priority, better luck next time". At least they're doing the 8 core for the 5930k though. I never thought it would happen, or if it did it would be for a $1000 X edition sometime a few years from now.
Edited by cookieboyeli - 3/13/14 at 11:40pm
post #209 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by revro View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbreslin View Post

Yeah sorry I just laughed when I read the pricing question..

"will 8GB DIMMs even be reasonably priced at launch?"

Uh, nope.
so what, if i am buying a 600buck haswell 8core, 250buck motherboard, then 100-150 bucks extra on top of current 8gb ram is not gonna kill me. i mean 8gb of great latency ddr3 cost in my country 95eur. so another 100 i could stomach. 5930k is like next q9550, a chip that will last you a decade, even more seeing how pcs get consolised by next gen lol tongue.gif
actually unless you have a q9550 like me, you got no reason to go for a haswell e, and if you do, then you must have the money.

best
revro

I don't see the Haswell-E as the next Core 2, as when it came out Core 2 killed the older Pentium D (which was a Pentium 4 tech) by double to triple the amount in performance at a much lower clock speed. With Haswell tech the industry is only shifting 30% gain on the original gen 1 Nehalem, is still in it bones Haswell still is a divertive from the 1st gen. Seem at this stage we are kind of moving in a similar path as the old Pentium 4 when it was changed over time, then one day some really different and new will come out, then thing will really change. Unfortunately that is not in sight, and not to be expected yet.

With all of that aside, I am highly anticipating this platform release smile.gif
post #210 of 253
I can't wait for x99 2 come out and the new 8 core CPU I really hope it comes out this year then I can upgrade from my z77 smile.gif
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