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[wccftech] Intel Haswell-E X99 Chipset “Wellsburg” Details Leaked - Page 9

post #81 of 253
well...I guess ill be buying a Z97 board with a refresh and waiting for broadwell. First computer build, should be good....that is until the prices go down on these X99 chipset mobos and CPUs....oh and DDR4 lol
post #82 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpliff View Post


You're not going to be able to do much with an upgrade to Haswell-E at $1,600 given the likely high launch prices of DDR4...

I just edited my post mentioning what I am actually upgrading, I should have been more clear before as I wont be upgrading my GPU at all.
post #83 of 253
I just remember the crushing, suicide-inspiring disappointment that ravaged my soul when I found out that X79/C600 had only 2 SATA3 ports when there were demo boards that, allegedly, had like 10 or 12.

I'm not going to go through that again.
    
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post #84 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by craige View Post

I just edited my post mentioning what I am actually upgrading, I should have been more clear before as I wont be upgrading my GPU at all.

That'll help you a decent bit, but the big thing to remember is still the fact that a plain Haswell i7-4770 will do everything you need while probably performing faster than the Haswell-E quad... Even if the bottom end HW-E does get upgraded to a hex it might not be necessary, nor worthwhile.

When you compare the performance shown in the xbitlabs review linked here comparing the upper end of what's currently available on the CPU market, you can see what I mean about the 4770 outperforming the 4820K, and the performance gained from the ~$300 the i7 HW costs against the ~$550ish 3930/4930K it might not be a justifiable jump regardless of the performance gains are with DDR4 vs DDR3.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-4960x-4930k-4820k_7.html












As you can see, depending on the kind of rendering and load the CPU is being required to do, there's really not that much of a performance difference to the extent of justifying the extra money for HW-E over the i7-4770... in fact in some cases the 4770 regularly outperforms the 4820K and in a few it's neck and neck if not better than a 3930K at $200 less, not to mention how much cheaper you can get a good Z87 board for compared to a halfways decent X79 board.

I understand wanting to future proof for a 4-5 year cycle, but stop and look at how long it takes developers to really adopt multi core usage and newer instruction sets. If y'all remember, they were still releasing new titles on the original XBox in 2007, more than 3 years after the launch of the 360. The same can be said for PS2 and PS3, and I'm pretty sure you'll see the same happen with the latest gen of consoles. Game developers go the route of the lowest denominator, which will almost certainly always be console coding. So as long as they're still making titles with the 360 and PS3 as the main units in use on the market, there won't be a big push to upgrade the intensity of hardware usage in game development.

The same review article talks about the respective gaming performance on each as well... As you can see, there's not much performance to be gained for the money with the IVB-E over HW unless you're planning on going with 3 or 4 way SLI/Crossfire which would of course destroy your $1,600 budget.









Ultimately you'll make you're own choices, but I was in the same boat and decided to go with a Haswell i5 and wait and see what HW-E / DDR4 prices and performance look like next spring or summer and then decide if I want to bite then. In the mean time, I'm loving the jump to a 4670K with a 780 over my FX-8120 and 7950s. If you do work on the computer that does justify having HT, then the i7 is a great grab... but honestly... if you upgrade anything right now, go with a smaller upgrade like what I did that will still give you great resale value down the road if you decide to go bananas on a behemoth X99 build in a year or two. Elsewise, for what you and I currently do, X99 probably is unnecessary.
post #85 of 253
Spaceman,

I appreciated the effort you had put to help me in my decision and I think you are absolutely right if I look from your point of view, but I have slight diff. understanding:

1] The comparision you have posted is between 4 vs 4 core, but when more cores come into play (6-cores), performance might dramatically increase in games like BF4, GTA V etc...
Now what I don't know is, if clock speed of HW-E is less but with more cores what effect it will have in gaming... I have read a article where developers are favoring AMD CPUs now (2014 onwards), as
there will be easier and better performing ports to PC as they are coded for consoles which uses AMD. Also, they are creating games in a way tht uses less frq. but more cores... now again I get confused
as to go with more cores than quad OR get fastest quad-core like 4790.

2] Re-sale value back in my country is like dirt, no matter what's the hardware... so upgrading later is not an option and thts the reason I upgrade after long as I have 2 throw the hardware/donate at best.

3] I have no clue about "E" parts from Intel, do generally mobo's related to "E" CPU are very expensive ? I generally buy mobo around 300$ range.

4] Which AMD CPU will be on par with intel i7-4770 or similar ?
post #86 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by craige View Post

Spaceman,

I appreciated the effort you had put to help me in my decision and I think you are absolutely right if I look from your point of view, but I have slight diff. understanding:

1] The comparision you have posted is between 4 vs 4 core, but when more cores come into play (6-cores), performance might dramatically increase in games like BF4, GTA V etc...
Now what I don't know is, if clock speed of HW-E is less but with more cores what effect it will have in gaming... I have read a article where developers are favoring AMD CPUs now (2014 onwards), as
there will be easier and better performing ports to PC as they are coded for consoles which uses AMD. Also, they are creating games in a way tht uses less frq. but more cores... now again I get confused
as to go with more cores than quad OR get fastest quad-core like 4790.

2] Re-sale value back in my country is like dirt, no matter what's the hardware... so upgrading later is not an option and thts the reason I upgrade after long as I have 2 throw the hardware/donate at best.

3] I have no clue about "E" parts from Intel, do generally mobo's related to "E" CPU are very expensive ? I generally buy mobo around 300$ range.

4] Which AMD CPU will be on par with intel i7-4770 or similar ?

First, I reread the article I linked in nowhere in that article do they state that they intentionally gimped the hex-core Intel and octo-core AMD processors to run only 4 cores. That's why you saw significant differences in CPU heavy bench scores like Cinebench and 3DMark between the SB-E and IvB-E [-E is the identifier for the Enthusiast class CPUs (those that run on the X79 chipset) from Intel, the 3820, 3930K, 3960/70X, and the 4820K, 4930K, and 4960X] when compared to the 3770K or 4770K. They mentioned running the Sisoft Sandra benchmarks comparing only the quad-core CPUs of each generation (3820, 4770K, 4820K) but nothing about shutting down any cores on the 6 and 8 core CPUs they benched.

Second, unless HSA and hUMA are adopted very quickly by developers in the next year to 18 months, there will not be as strong a case to be made for PC gaming and for pc porting making AMD CPUs stronger than Intel's, which is unfortunate as the competition would be a very welcome thing after basically a decade of Intel dominance. Intel CPUs will still dominate AMDs and still be the go to for the best available performance.

And third, unless the 4790 Haswell refresh proves to be a miles better overclocker to the extent that it comes with a native turbo clock of about 4.3 or higher, there will not be a significant enough performance gain from an original Haswell processor to fall victim to yet another Intel marketing gimmick. I understand your concerns if the resale value seems to be low in your country, but still, my point about X99 and Haswell-E (5820K, 5930K, 5960X) still remains valid that you're probably best suited waiting until at least the end of the year and saving money over the almost certain to be exorbitant launch prices for X99 boards and DDR4 ram. We already have a fairly solid idea of the price range for the Haswell-E CPUs, but at $300 you're maybe getting a decent midrange motherboard for the LGA2011-13 socket and X99 chipset, and a decent 8GB ramset is likely to be in the $350-450 range at launch for DDR4. If you can wait it out until next Spring or Summer for Haswell-E, an i7-4770(K) CPU and a decent Z87 motherboard will still have decent value, maybe not much above 60-75% of retail, but enough to cover most if not all of the cost of the CPU or MB.
Edited by SpacemanSpliff - 3/10/14 at 11:42pm
post #87 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpliff View Post

*snip*

A decent 8GB ramset is likely to be in the $350-450 range at launch for DDR4. If you can wait it out until next Spring or Summer for Haswell-E, an i7-4770(K) CPU and a decent Z87 motherboard will still have decent value, maybe not much above 60-75% of retail, but enough to cover most if not all of the cost of the CPU or MB.

Woah, woah what? Is it really going to be that expensive at launch? That is beyond outrageous! How could anyone in the universe justify that? If this turns out to be the case it seriously puts all my plans in jeopardy..

If I have to wait 6-8 months after X99 launches for DDR4 to even be affordable I'll probably just wait another couple months for Skywell-E.
Edited by cookieboyeli - 3/11/14 at 12:46am
post #88 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by cookieboyeli View Post

Woah, woah what? Is it really going to be that expensive at launch? That is beyond outrageous! How could anyone in the universe justify that? If this turns out to be the case it seriously puts all my plans in jeopardy..

If I have to wait 6-8 months after X99 launches for DDR4 to even be affordable I'll probably just wait another couple months for Skywell-E.

Probably not that expensive, but anywhere from 50-100% higher than equivalent DDR3 kits. So for a single 8gb stick (which runs anywhere from $90-130 or so for >1600 mhz), you're looking at a prices for a 8gb DDR4 ranging from $135-250.
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post #89 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by MeanBruce View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyae86 View Post

So is this replacing the X79 chipset?

Yes, and thank The Lord for that. X79 was only half-built on Inauguration Day.

Didn't we already establish that HWE was going to be one hexcore and two octocores already about two three months back? Right here or in the news section?

Very certain I saw that and was pleased, since much better news than the $1000 suffix-X being the only 8-core.

I think pricing will follow Intel's tried and true price points as always (plus/minus $50).

6-core K $350
8-core K $580
8-core X $1000

Except the introductory/early adopter (first three weeks) cost will be higher as always.

I remember that article, although I am very hopeful that is the case, then what you have list as pricing might be there about. I certainly feel that it might be otherwise, and many other here feel the same. When X79 came out, it was not until later that there was a 4 core variant, and with past history we may see the same.

My general thoughts are Intel are going to break this into 3 lots, and make the 8 core almost untouchable, as majority of the population don't really need it or even a 6 core. With that I am predicting that Intel will make the extreme edition their 8 core variant, the high-end a 6 core, and then throw use the 4 core version after a few months or so. I don't expect Intel to give anyone any freebies or extras for nothing, I see the pricing being like this, if the sequence numbering of the parts carry over:

i7-5820K (4-core) $350 - stalled release ~3-6months after the leaked June date

i7-5930K (6-core) $580 - available at leaked release June

i7-5960X (8-core) $1000 - available at leaked release June
post #90 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsumi View Post

Probably not that expensive, but anywhere from 50-100% higher than equivalent DDR3 kits. So for a single 8gb stick (which runs anywhere from $90-130 or so for >1600 mhz), you're looking at a prices for a 8gb DDR4 ranging from $135-250.

I said set, which implies 2 sticks... And yes, prices will be pretty steep at launch... figure double if not more as the ram market has been running very high over the last 12-18 months... do you remember how much DDR3 was selling for at launch? To pay for binned and matched sticks you'll absolutely be paying a considerably higher amount than DDR3. Bottom line is still this... unless you're doing rendering etc, and absolutely need it right away, you're probably best served waiting at least 3 months for the drivers to mature and for the holiday sales to drop the prices on it all. Early adopters in the computer world should honestly concede to themselves and everyone else that they will almost always pay the most for new hardware with immature BIOS and driver support. That's two headaches and an empty wallet that I'll gladly pass on.
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