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Just tried windows 8 for the first time..............lets just say i am extremely pissed and unhappy(help with new OS thread) - Page 14

post #131 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

Just because a new version of Windows doesn't outsell the older one doesn't mean it's terrible.

True, but if people are pissing on the new one and flocking to the stores to buy the old one... and manufacturers are going BACK to selling 7 (for an extra charge!!), I think that really says all you need to know about how good 8 is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsc1973 View Post

Even Vista wasn't terrible; Vista just had no business running on a lot of the hardware it initially shipped on, and Intel should have waited for the Core 2 Duo.

I never believed that was true, and when 7 came out, I was proved correct. Windows 7 runs better on the same hardware because vista was written horribly. It got better after SP1, but the initial release was certainly a disaster. It was never an issue about the hardware not being good enough - it was about the software not being good enough.
post #132 of 175
The biggest problem with Windows 8 was the lack of any kind of tutorial. Everyone who uses it doesn't understand how to do things they used to know how to do and immediately they say it's awful. It's not awful. Actually, 8.1 is a really great OS with many improvements. I don't necessarily agree with Microsoft's decision making because it's definitely tailored for a tablet, but a lot of you guys are saying it's "unusable" which is ridiculous. I haven't found 1 thing in Windows 8.1 that is more of a pain to do than in Windows 7. Personally, I think everyone needs to chill out about it.

I do think it's funny that the casual masses will switch from Windows to Apple and have to relearn EVERYTHING and they won't complain, but when they have to go and look for the shut down button in Windows 8 they revolt like it's the hardest thing in the world to do.
post #133 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

The biggest problem with Windows 8 was the lack of any kind of tutorial. Everyone who uses it doesn't understand how to do things they used to know how to do and immediately they say it's awful. It's not awful. Actually, 8.1 is a really great OS with many improvements. I don't necessarily agree with Microsoft's decision making because it's definitely tailored for a tablet, but a lot of you guys are saying it's "unusable" which is ridiculous. I haven't found 1 thing in Windows 8.1 that is more of a pain to do than in Windows 7. Personally, I think everyone needs to chill out about it.

I do think it's funny that the casual masses will switch from Windows to Apple and have to relearn EVERYTHING and they won't complain, but when they have to go and look for the shut down button in Windows 8 they revolt like it's the hardest thing in the world to do.

May I refer you to my previous post where I talk about the flat design which makes it hard to distinguish between interactive widgets and non-interactive design elements and the way how lots of stuff is hidden behind non-guessable gestures / menus.

Sure, a seasoned use will know how to navigate around that UI, but at least Apple's skeuomorphic design makes it easier for users unfamiliar to a specific application or window to guess about what every element does from just glancing at it.

This is where the problem lies with Windows 8 - it requires education, interaction and guess work to use. Where as nearly all other desktop environments follow a standard familiar work flow and design of interactive widgets. The latter makes for an intuitive experience for even those who are alien to the platform; the former makes for a confusing and frustrating initial experience.

And this is where the problem lies with arguments about Windows 8 with pro-Windows users. People like yourself have the energy and motivation to learn the intricacies of Metro; everyone else gets fed up and either "downgrades" to Win7 or switches to OS X / Linux. So any real world improvements that Windows 8 brings gets lost due because people simply find the front end counter-intuitive.

As I said in one of my earlier posts; OS's shouldn't get in the way of a users work flow - Windows 8 does.
post #134 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

May I refer you to my previous post where I talk about the flat design which makes it hard to distinguish between interactive widgets and non-interactive design elements and the way how lots of stuff is hidden behind non-guessable gestures / menus.

Sure, a seasoned use will know how to navigate around that UI, but at least Apple's skeuomorphic design makes it easier for users unfamiliar to a specific application or window to guess about what every element does from just glancing at it.

This is where the problem lies with Windows 8 - it requires education, interaction and guess work to use. Where as nearly all other desktop environments follow a standard familiar work flow and design of interactive widgets. The latter makes for an intuitive experience for even those who are alien to the platform; the former makes for a confusing and frustrating initial experience.

And this is where the problem lies with arguments about Windows 8 with pro-Windows users. People like yourself have the energy and motivation to learn the intricacies of Metro; everyone else gets fed up and either "downgrades" to Win7 or switches to OS X / Linux. So any real world improvements that Windows 8 brings gets lost due because people simply find the front end counter-intuitive.

As I said in one of my earlier posts; OS's shouldn't get in the way of a users work flow - Windows 8 does.


But it doesn't get in the way of workflow. And, if it does, it's only because the end user doesn't know how to use it. That brings me back to my original post in saying that the lack of a tutorial is what really hurt the OS. I don't think that you can fault Microsoft for requiring their users to have some level of competence before using their OS. They can't expect the general populous to just go out and learn it on their own though.

I definitely get a lot of the dislikes that people have about it. For one, as an IT administrator, I hate the dumbed-down error messages. I would like to know why something went wrong but instead, it tells me: "Uh oh! frown.gif" That's ridiculous in my mind. Still that's a small price to pay for increased speed and security.

Most of the haters on it though are acting like it's the worst thing to ever happen to computing and it's completely unusable. That is really an overreaction.
post #135 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

But it doesn't get in the way of workflow. And, if it does, it's only because the end user doesn't know how to use it.
That's just ridiculous. You don't change your workflow to match the way an OS works - the OS should be written to work around your workflow. If you, as an IT administrator, are honestly living by the principle that people need to adapt the way they work to match each new whim of developers, then you're not doing your job properly. Computers are there to serve people; not the other way around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

I definitely get a lot of the dislikes that people have about it. For one, as an IT administrator, I hate the dumbed-down error messages. I would like to know why something went wrong but instead, it tells me: "Uh oh! frown.gif" That's ridiculous in my mind. Still that's a small price to pay for increased speed and security.
Plenty of other platforms provide speed, security and helpful error messages. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

Most of the haters on it though are acting like it's the worst thing to ever happen to computing and it's completely unusable. That is really an overreaction.
And equally plenty of fanboys are acting as if there's nothing wrong. Which is massively dismissive.
post #136 of 175
Man people really hate windows 8 that much? Welcome some change... Windows 8 is awesome. Win 7 feels so old and clunky... Haven't had 1 issue with my windows 8 yet...
post #137 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

That's just ridiculous. You don't change your workflow to match the way an OS works - the OS should be written to work around your workflow. If you, as an IT administrator, are honestly living by the principle that people need to adapt the way they work to match each new whim of developers, then you're not doing your job properly. Computers are there to serve people; not the other way around.
Plenty of other platforms provide speed, security and helpful error messages. wink.gif
And equally plenty of fanboys are acting as if there's nothing wrong. Which is massively dismissive.

You and I are just gonna disagree on this...and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine is that Windows 8 is nowhere near as bad as people are saying. What exactly do you have trouble doing? Everything that could be done in Win 7 can be done in Win 8 the same amount of steps or fewer. I'm definitely no Microsoft fanboy, but Windows 8 is getting a lot of undeserved hate.
post #138 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

And, if it does, it's only because the end user doesn't know how to use it. That brings me back to my original post in saying that the lack of a tutorial is what really hurt the OS. I don't think that you can fault Microsoft for requiring their users to have some level of competence before using their OS.

What's been said regarding this is absolutely true. I'd like to add, though: yes, we can absolutely fault MS for "requiring some level of competence." This is not Linux. This is a commercial OS that people pay money for so that they get something easy to use that works well right out of the box (and before you say, "Yes, it does," I'd like to remind you about how many people flock to the 3rd party apps to get the UI to work the way they want it to.) OSX, like windows, is a commercial OS. They don't happen to have these problems, though. It's clear that MS made a serious blunder, and 'education' is no excuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

I definitely get a lot of the dislikes that people have about it. For one, as an IT administrator, I hate the dumbed-down error messages. I would like to know why something went wrong but instead, it tells me: "Uh oh! frown.gif" That's ridiculous in my mind. Still that's a small price to pay for increased speed and security.

By saying, "Still that's a small price to pay for increased speed and security," you've directly attributed the descriptiveness of error messages to speed and security, when in fact they have nothing to do with each other. As was already mentioned, why not have all of the above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

Most of the haters on it though are acting like it's the worst thing to ever happen to computing and it's completely unusable. That is really an overreaction.

That's true, too. It's not ususable, and they actually have done a lot to improve the internals of the OS. But just like the above fallacy, improving the internals doesn't directly cause a UI meltdown.
post #139 of 175
I don't understand why most people hate windows 8. Its better than 7 in many ways. It seems its ''in'' to say windows 8 sucks even if you never really tried it. I mean its not that different, anyone with a brain can easy use the new start menu. Press the win button then type what you need it'll search it right away. Kids these days....
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post #140 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99Cookies View Post

I don't understand why most people hate windows 8. Its better than 7 in many ways. It seems its ''in'' to say windows 8 sucks even if you never really tried it. I mean its not that different, anyone with a brain can easy use the new start menu. Press the win button then type what you need it'll search it right away. Kids these days....

You and me both 99cookies ! I have a great time with my W8.1 install ! I did install Classic Shell though. I like to have my start menu + desktop mode at startup and I like to shearch fromt he start menu, not from metro. other than that, I am happy with its performance upgrade and gaming smoothness.
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