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Just tried windows 8 for the first time..............lets just say i am extremely pissed and unhappy(help with new OS thread) - Page 15

post #141 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

What exactly do you have trouble doing? Everything that could be done in Win 7 can be done in Win 8 the same amount of steps or fewer.
You're not getting the point I'm making. It's not that Windows 8 can't do stuff or that it takes longer to do them. It's that it's counter intuitive to work out how to do stuff if you don't already know. It's that it's a step backwards in terms of usability. And the fact that even the advocates in this thread have agreed that Win8 can be frustrating at first, says a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

I'm definitely no Microsoft fanboy, but Windows 8 is getting a lot of undeserved hate.
Maybe. Depends on your perspective. Windows has always been pretty poor compared to the competition in my honest opinion. I've spent a large portion of my career working with Windows but have always been agnostic towards OSs and I honest do think Windows 2000 was one of the few exceptions where Microsoft genuinely had the best OS on the market (back then OS 9 was poo, Desktop Linux wasn't practical for 99% of people and, sadly, BeOS was a dying platform). But I digress; my point is that, pragmatically Windows' biggest advantage was it'a monopoly.

Let me be clear about something though, I accept that plenty of people chose Windows because it's the platform they liked the most - and that's obviously fine. We all have our preferences. But if we're completely honest, there's also a lot of people used Windows because they either didn't have a choice (software / economics mandated their choice of platform) or simply didn't know there was anything else out there. It's the self-fulfilling prophecy that a monopoly rewards you (and Gates, who I do genuinely have a huge amount of respect for, understood that being successful isn't about being the best technologically speaking, but often just about being good enough to be usable but also mostly about being a smart businessman).

The problem Microsoft now faces is that the choice of host OS is becoming less relevant. Linux is becoming more relevant for gaming and is finally usable for the layman, Macs have become cheaper / more available / cool, and a lot of applications have moved to the cloud so there's less Windows-only issues than there ever have been. So people don't need to put up with an OS they don't like any longer - which is where I think a lot if the hate comes from. People are just getting fed up and realising that they don't have to learn to love Windows; then can switch platforms.

Again, I'm not saying this is the case for everyone and I accept that some genuinely love Win8. Everyone is different. But I think a lot of the hate about Win8 is because people don't have to like Windows any longer so they're more vocal about the annoyances it has.

Sorry for the essay. I just wanted to explain my position properly smile.gif
post #142 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by 99Cookies View Post

I don't understand why most people hate windows 8. Its better than 7 in many ways. It seems its ''in'' to say windows 8 sucks even if you never really tried it. I mean its not that different, anyone with a brain can easy use the new start menu. Press the win button then type what you need it'll search it right away. Kids these days....

Translation: I like Windows8 and think anyone who doesn't is stupid.

tongue.gif
post #143 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hundred Gunner View Post

What's been said regarding this is absolutely true. I'd like to add, though: yes, we can absolutely fault MS for "requiring some level of competence." This is not Linux. This is a commercial OS that people pay money for so that they get something easy to use that works well right out of the box (and before you say, "Yes, it does," I'd like to remind you about how many people flock to the 3rd party apps to get the UI to work the way they want it to.) OSX, like windows, is a commercial OS. They don't happen to have these problems, though. It's clear that MS made a serious blunder, and 'education' is no excuse.
By saying, "Still that's a small price to pay for increased speed and security," you've directly attributed the descriptiveness of error messages to speed and security, when in fact they have nothing to do with each other. As was already mentioned, why not have all of the above?
That's true, too. It's not ususable, and they actually have done a lot to improve the internals of the OS. But just like the above fallacy, improving the internals doesn't directly cause a UI meltdown.

Good post, I agree with a lot of it. I didn't mean that it's either speed and security OR error messages, but you are correct that that's how I phrased it. I just meant that I'd take the less descriptive error messages of Windows 8 along with the added features over Windows 7.

All that being said, I still think the main problem is lack of consumer knowledge and training on Microsoft's part. There's nothing that a normal user would do in Windows 7 that takes longer in Windows 8. Want to Shut down...? Right click on the Start Button and click Shut Down. Want to search for something? Click the start button and start typing (FYI, the EXACT same way you did it in Win 7, plus the new search features in Win 8 are very helpful) The problem comes in though because no one is going to know about those things unless someone tells them. That stupid 1 minute tutorial at OS install isn't worth the price you pay for it. Couple that with the fact that the average Windows 8 user probably tinkered around with it for 2 minutes while shopping at Wal Mart and couldn't master it so voila, you have an "unusable" OS.
post #144 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan9 View Post

You're not getting the point I'm making. It's not that Windows 8 can't do stuff or that it takes longer to do them. It's that it's counter intuitive to work out how to do stuff if you don't already know. It's that it's a step backwards in terms of usability. And the fact that even the advocates in this thread have agreed that Win8 can be frustrating at first, says a lot.

I get what you're saying, but my problem is that by that logic, why ever try anything different? Why ever move away from Windows XP? Should Microsoft keep it the same until the end of time? They built an OS that could be uniform across all of their devices. It doesn't matter if you pick up a Windows Phone, a Surface Pro, or sit down in front of a Windows 8 desktop, you're going to get the same experience. That's what they were going for. You might make an argument that that was a dumb thing to do, but that's what Microsoft was trying to do and they accomplished it. I don't really care if people don't like Windows 8. That's fine by me. It's when they start calling it completely unusable and say it's the worst OS ever that I will state my case.
post #145 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerapar88 View Post

You and me both 99cookies ! I have a great time with my W8.1 install ! I did install Classic Shell though. I like to have my start menu + desktop mode at startup and I like to shearch fromt he start menu, not from metro. other than that, I am happy with its performance upgrade and gaming smoothness.

Right? It's a great OS. And indeed you can install classic shell and bam, it's the exam same thing as 7 but with better performance and more functionalities. Oh well!
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post #146 of 175
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Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

I get what you're saying, but my problem is that by that logic, why ever try anything different? Why ever move away from Windows XP? Should Microsoft keep it the same until the end of time?
No, that's not what I'm saying. Change is fine. However Metro isn't a change for the better for most people. Like I've said, there's a number of pretty flawed design decisions that have lead to Windows 8 being counter intuitive.

Take Windows 3.1 -> Windows 95, that was a huge step forwards for usability. That was a change for the better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

They built an OS that could be uniform across all of their devices. It doesn't matter if you pick up a Windows Phone, a Surface Pro, or sit down in front of a Windows 8 desktop, you're going to get the same experience. That's what they were going for.
I know and that's actually one of the biggest reasons I hate Windows8. Different paradigms lend themselves to different UIs. Trying to shoehorn the same UI on phones, games consoles, tablets, desktops and servers is just insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

You might make an argument that that was a dumb thing to do, but that's what Microsoft was trying to do and they accomplished it.
Actually I don't think it was dumb. I think it was a deliberate move to lock people into the Windows platform now that Microsoft's old monopoly has fallen apart due to the variety of other computing paradigms available. So from a marketing perspective it was a calculated decision.

And that's the problem, it's a decision based on marketing rather than what's best for users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

I don't really care if people don't like Windows 8. That's fine by me. It's when they start calling it completely unusable and say it's the worst OS ever that I will state my case.
That's a matter of opinion I guess, but in 30 years of personal computers, I can genuinely only think of one OS that I've found more irritating to use than Windows 8.
Edited by Plan9 - 3/28/14 at 2:05pm
post #147 of 175
Well, I can't argue anymore. You and I are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I think what most people find irritating about Windows 8 is the fact that they have to relearn how to do some things that they've been doing for a long time. I don't find that irritating at all so I can't relate.
post #148 of 175
Oh my god. We actually have to....learn something? :OOOOOOOOO. God forbid you take 30 minutes out of your hectic and crammed schedule and actually learn the OS instead of coming to OCN to complain. The OS at first is a bit difficult. But then you realize that aside from metro, it's not all that different. In fact it is pretty intuitive. Remember going from windows XP to Vista people panned it saying it was crap for the same reason; they didn't want to learn something new. But then they go on to say windows 7 is great. News flash ....W7 was just Windows Vista SP3. They were practically the same OS. The only difference is that when vista came out, people were trying to install it on XP machines that couldn't handle it and therefor the OS was labled as buggy and slow.
post #149 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by unfbilly11 View Post

Well, I can't argue anymore. You and I are just gonna have to agree to disagree. I think what most people find irritating about Windows 8 is the fact that they have to relearn how to do some things that they've been doing for a long time. I don't find that irritating at all so I can't relate.

Not being funny, but you're talking about why people don't like Windows 8 from the perspective of someone who likes Windows 8. So you're obviously going to be at a disadvantage relating. Where as I'm talking from personal experience when I say why some don't like Windows 8.

However I'm fine with agreeing to disagree - like I said, I appreciate some people do like it and have no problem with that. Even ignoring the bits which are open to subjection, it's not like "best" or "worst" is scientifically measurable anyway smile.gif
post #150 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8800GT View Post

Oh my god. We actually have to....learn something? :OOOOOOOOO. God forbid you take 30 minutes out of your hectic and crammed schedule and actually learn the OS instead of coming to OCN to complain. The OS at first is a bit difficult. But then you realize that aside from metro, it's not all that different. In fact it is pretty intuitive. Remember going from windows XP to Vista people panned it saying it was crap for the same reason; they didn't want to learn something new. But then they go on to say windows 7 is great. News flash ....W7 was just Windows Vista SP3. They were practically the same OS. The only difference is that when vista came out, people were trying to install it on XP machines that couldn't handle it and therefor the OS was labled as buggy and slow.

Oh for crying out loud. I've said multiple times it's not that you have to learn stuff; it's that for many people it's a change for the worst. I've given examples why but if you want to choose to ignore them and pick out a tiny part of my post and then distort it's context to prove your own biases, then what's the point in me trying to communicate with you guys like adults rolleyes.gif

But FYI, I work on far more complex systems than Windows for a living - I don't care about learning the intricacies of an OS. I do care if those intricacies slow down my productivity. I'm less productive in Windows 8 - thus it's less suited for me. /discussion
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