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AMD Kaveri budget build for my father in law - Page 4

post #31 of 55
Quote:
And yet you persist....

You're right, I should never compare and contrast the advantages of an Intel alternative ever, it might cause someone to blow a gasket.

I feel like you are implying that what I am doing is somehow "wrong."
Edited by mdocod - 3/28/14 at 4:27pm
     
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post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

You're right, I should never compare and contrast the advantages of an Intel alternative ever, it might cause someone to blow a gasket.

I feel like you are implying that what I am doing is somehow "wrong."
Technically you are. I feel that if first stated the poster has chosen a given CPU then it is best to only give advice in that line. In the case of this thread, I doubt any choice of CPU/APU would have been noticed assuming the user has little knowledge of Computer use. Technically a great deal of people in the world would have a hard time distinguishing either platform in a normal use environment. This part has been proven more times than not. A Kaveri would have been a perfect build for the intended use. Intel could offer no advantage in its use here. The iGPU of the Kaveri is miles ahead of Intel and with the reduced need of a dGPU, the user would be safe if they did happen to dabble in some gaming.

Now that the poster has changed their mind thanks to your meddling, you just need to only point out what they need for that build and no need to mention AMD any further. Even if others do.

Edit: Actually I see you brought it up without provocation that I could see.
post #33 of 55
Durq,

You're right, the OP should change absolutely nothing about the original build. It was perfect with the mechanical drive and the slow high voltage memory and the mediocre quality motherboard. Since the end-user wouldn't be able to tell the difference there is no reason for any of us to point any of those things out. Actually, you know what? The OP should just buy a Dell because the end user won't be able to tell the difference because quality and performance will have no effect on someone while they check their email.

Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of reaching out for peoples ideas and opinions?


As someone who actually owns a richland A10, I'm not just pulling chains for the sake of pulling chains here. The compute efficiency and effectiveness of the stock HSF is worth consideration. You can hear the fan on the stock cooler whir up every time a web page renders. It is something worth pointing out. My experience with this chip is in fact useful. Sharing what I know about it, is NOT WRONG.

By the standard you are judging me by, it would also be "wrong" to:

1. point out that this build would be better with an SSD.
2. compare and contrast budget motherboards that would be suited to this build to achieve higher quality/value.
3. compare and contrast PSUs that would be suited to this build to achieve higher quality/value.
4. compare and contrast using the big mid-tower case or replace it with something SFF.
5. compare and contrast alternative RAM choices.

And on and on...



Since you were not bothered when any of those other areas were compared and contrasted, we get to the root of the issue here. Your blind infatuation with AMD.


There is nothing wrong with making the case for the i5 over Kaveri for this build. There's nothing wrong with making the case for a reduced cost CPU like Richland to make room in the budget for an SSD, and there's nothing wrong with then considering the competing from intel in that price bracket.

The reality of the hardware landscape right now with CPUs, is that AMDs strengths (yes they do have strengths) are in areas that benefit enthusiast computer users who are interested in performance tuning, or need access to specialized capabilities. The Richland chip offers sophisticated features for "power users." Those benefits, don't really do much good in solitaire, or while checking email. The advantages of the Intel offerings in these lower end product ranges are more practical, and more tangible for ordinary personal computers.
Edited by mdocod - 3/28/14 at 5:52pm
     
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post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Durq,

You're right, the OP should change absolutely nothing about the original build. It was perfect with the mechanical drive and the slow high voltage memory and the mediocre quality motherboard. Since the end-user wouldn't be able to tell the difference there is no reason for any of us to point any of those things out. Actually, you know what? The OP should just buy a Dell because the end user won't be able to tell the difference because quality and performance will have no effect on someone while they check their email.

Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of reaching out for peoples ideas and opinions?


As someone who actually owns a richland A10, I'm not just pulling chains for the sake of pulling chains here. The compute efficiency and effectiveness of the stock HSF is worth consideration. You can hear the fan on the stock cooler whir up every time a web page renders. It is something worth pointing out. My experience with this chip is in fact useful. Sharing what I know about it, is NOT WRONG.

By the standard you are judging me by, it would also be "wrong" to:

1. point out that this build would be better with an SSD.
2. compare and contrast budget motherboards that would be suited to this build to achieve higher quality/value.
3. compare and contrast PSUs that would be suited to this build to achieve higher quality/value.
4. compare and contrast using the big mid-tower case or replace it with something SFF.
5. compare and contrast alternative RAM choices.

And on and on...



Since you were not bothered when any of those other areas were compared and contrasted, we get to the root of the issue here. Your blind infatuation with AMD.


There is nothing wrong with making the case for the i5 over Kaveri for this build. There's nothing wrong with making the case for a reduced cost CPU like Richland to make room in the budget for an SSD, and there's nothing wrong with then considering the competing from intel in that price bracket.

The reality of the hardware landscape right now with CPUs, is that AMDs strengths (yes they do have strengths) are in areas that benefit enthusiast computer users who are interested in performance tuning, or need access to specialized capabilities. The Richland chip offers sophisticated features for "power users." Those benefits, don't really do much good in solitaire, or while checking email. The advantages of the Intel offerings in these lower end product ranges are more practical, and more tangible for ordinary personal computers.
And this is why so many argue with you. You think you are always right. Think of it from a standpoint of honor and respect.

But nothing changes the fact that likely the user would never care that they had a mechanical drive and on the simple fact that the user may be short of computer knowledge a mechanical drive might be the better choice ( defrag possibility ). A 5 year old i3 would suffice in that case as well. For the original build the Kaveri would have been an excellent choice. If any changes needed to be made for the other parts according to stability and reliability of the parts then by all means it must be said. But no other CPU/APU in existence in this case would have mattered or made a significant difference in the outcome of the users end experience.

You need to take a step back and look at it for what it is. Asking why someone chose a CPU/APU is fine but the moment you start pushing an alternative where the end result has no bearing or, in the case of another thread you attempted this same thing, The choice in CPU was made clear from the get go, then you are not so innocent and do nothing more than flame and cause arguments where there was no reason for such.
post #35 of 55
Thread Starter 
Haha, screw it I'm going with the A10 just because I've never built an AMD machine before. I'll also try to get an SSD if the budget will allow (will talk to him about parts this weekend). I do want that Prodigy case though so whats a good A10 mobo for it?
post #36 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

And this is why so many argue with you. You think you are always right. Think of it from a standpoint of honor and respect.

I'm a self-proclaimed know-it-all. I don't have any respect for you because I think you are a narrow minded AMD shill who routinely holds me to double standards.
Quote:
But nothing changes the fact that likely the user would never care that they had a mechanical drive and on the simple fact that the user may be short of computer knowledge a mechanical drive might be the better choice ( defrag possibility ). A 5 year old i3 would suffice in that case as well.

You're missing the point. Nobody starts a thread to build a custom computer because they want something that will "just suffice." The whole point here was to try to get a nice quality machine made from high value known-quality parts. The conditions that you are holding ME TO if applied to the thread as a whole, would defeat the entire purpose of even having the thread in the first place.
Quote:
For the original build the Kaveri would have been an excellent choice.

Yes it would have worked fine, but I believe I made a very reasonable case for the i5 being a better choice in that price class for non-enthusiast users. If you disagree, explain why, quit complaining about me and start sharing some useful information. The only thing I see you doing here, id defending the AMD solution for the sake of defending the AMD solution with no basis in anything tangible besides "it's good enough."
Quote:
If any changes needed to be made for the other parts according to stability and reliability of the parts then by all means it must be said.

You're admitting your favoritism for "locking in" that AMD CPU choice here. I don't believe there should be any "aura of protection" that locks in the decision to go AMD as soon as someone mutters the idea. Most of the people these days who are turning to AMD for a budget class build for family/friends are doing so under false pretenses lingering from a bygone era when AMD really had the faster, more efficient, more feature rich lower cost CPU. Intel isn't making P4's anymore. There are competitive options on both sides of the isle worth considering at every price class that AMD and Intel compete in.
Quote:
But no other CPU/APU in existence in this case would have mattered or made a significant difference in the outcome of the users end experience.

Just because any CPU will work doesn't mean it's not possible to weigh the options and try to pick a "best solution." Knowing which is the better solution for a particular application is something I pride myself on because I do the homework to know the answer to that. I test, I read, I compare, I analyze, I measure. Simply put, you can call me a smart-A$$ because I am one and I have no problems with that. I am sitting in a room with a Haswell rig, an FX rig, and a Richland rig. I have direct experience with these CPUs and know where they stand. Beyond that I research this stuff with a passion.
Quote:
You need to take a step back and look at it for what it is. Asking why someone chose a CPU/APU is fine

Actually, asking loaded questions is FROWNED UPON here. It's BAD etiquette to step into a thread and just question everything in a loaded manner (planning an opportunity to "correct" someone). I *try* to avoid this behavior by cutting straight to the point because I believe it is far more respectful.
Quote:
but the moment you start pushing an alternative where the end result has no bearing or, in the case of another thread you attempted this same thing, The choice in CPU was made clear from the get go, then you are not so innocent and do nothing more than flame and cause arguments where there was no reason for such.

The only thing I am guilty of, is having the nerve, and the spine to say it like it is as far as CPUs are concerned among childish fanboys like yourself.
Edited by mdocod - 3/28/14 at 7:23pm
     
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post #37 of 55
Thread Starter 
Thinking about this SSD for $125. Of course I could just get a Samsung 840 Evo 250GB for $30 more but that may blow the budget. I'm guessing you guys are right and that 240+GB should be fine for him...

post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Haha, screw it I'm going with the A10 just because I've never built an AMD machine before. I'll also try to get an SSD if the budget will allow (will talk to him about parts this weekend). I do want that Prodigy case though so whats a good A10 mobo for it?

To be clear. I am absolutely in favor of building an AMD rig "for the sake of building an AMD rig." I have a soft spot for the underdogs in tech. It's part of why I have had AMD CPUs in every computer I have built for myself for nearly 15 years. I also used to really have a thing for apple ... cough

Richland is neat in many ways. You'll find features on that CPU that Intel doesn't turn on till "Xeon."

For this build, I recommend the A8-6500.

And yes!, the M500 is one of the most modern/sophisticated SSDs in it's price class. Highly recommended.
     
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post #39 of 55
Thread Starter 
So what mobo for the Prodigy though? Only ITX FM2+ boards I can find are mini-ITX on NE. Considering I have literally no need of any mobo features in this build (ie overclocking, lots of SATA headers, memory slots, etc) shouldn't I be OK with just the cheapest one? This ASRock seems fine, though I wish I could get an Asus. I always use Asus...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157464
Edited by Majin SSJ Eric - 3/28/14 at 7:28pm
post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post


As someone who actually owns a richland A10, I'm not just pulling chains for the sake of pulling chains here. The compute efficiency and effectiveness of the stock HSF is worth consideration. You can hear the fan on the stock cooler whir up every time a web page renders. It is something worth pointing out. My experience with this chip is in fact useful. Sharing what I know about it, is NOT WRONG.

By the standard you are judging me by, it would also be "wrong" to:
.

I'd also like to agree with this. The stock HSF for AMD's APU line of products is pretty awful, I have to dust mine every 4-6 months to prevent throttling in games. They should really ship the newer Kaveri A8-A10 chips with a FX heatsink.

Still though, a Kaveri chip will have a longer lifespan in terms of use. The CPU will be acceptable for about 5 years, and the GPU like-wise, maybe even longer. Should likely buy a aftermarket cooler for it, so it doesn't require cleaning as often.

The Intel solution will have a stronger CPU likely good for 5-7 years in terms of performance, but the GPU MIGHT not hold up as well as Kaveri.
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