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AMD Kaveri budget build for my father in law - Page 6

post #51 of 55
Using a tower heatsink helps influence the front-to-back airflow design of the Prodigy and increases time between maintenance cycles in cleaning out dust. Since you're not OCing, its a good choice to stick with stock cooling as it does help cool the VRMs on the board with downward airflow around the CPU socket.
post #52 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Alright guys, I think this is pretty close to what I want to do:



As I said, there are probably some good reasons to go Intel here in terms of power efficiency and familiarity but I've never built an AMD rig and this is a great opportunity to. I went with the A8 6600K instead of the A10 for budget, chose the cheapest 2400MHz memory I could find (somebody said memory speed was important with Kaveri), stuck with that Rosewill PSU as Twocables recommended it highly, went with the Prodigy because I just love the look of it and it will fit his desk perfectly, chose the ASRock mobo because I personally do not like Gigabyte mobo's (don't ask), the Crucial M500 240GB SSD because its the cheapest decent 240GB SSD I could find and I'm hoping that'll be enough capacity for him, and that CM Devastator KB?mouse combo because its a great deal (actually just ordered this for myself as my folding rig is in need of a new KB). Windows is missing in this list because my sister-in-law is a student at the local college and I can get her student discount on Win8.1 and to be honest, I can shave some budget if necessary as I have an 8GB kit of Corsair Vengeance memory sitting in my desk drawer that I'm not using. Thanks again for all you guys's help and sorry to start a mini-Intel/AMD flame war. thumb.gif

EDIT - Oh, and I also have a spare Hyper 212 if needed for the build. I'm not sure if it would fit in the Prodigy though?
I would advise as much as possible here going to Kaveri from Richland, for future proofing and extra performance it gives. And there is the configurable TDP the Kaveri has if you wish to reduce power consumption and heat. Just a point to consider of course and as I stated the difference would not be terribly noticeable. And My brother has the Kaveri and a friend has a Richland, both coming from low-mid Intel and both are very pleased with the performance, my brother being the less informed.

Honestly it is the betas that make a huge impact on Kaveri and it has got me so jazzed.

Anyway the Richland is great and will perform as needed and definitely helps save money.

On the rest of the parts, I still say don't get a SSD just get the HDD, it will save a lot of money and the speed difference with Win8 wont be huge at all, like 2-3sec at best. Most HDDs last quite some time as well and are a lot cheaper. And like the poster I quoted below, if you can save a bit 2133 Ram would do just fine. If the deal is good on the 2400, go for it, I would but that's just my MOAR POWA side. Stock heatsink is ok but can get VERY LOUD if the temps get even mid range. Actually saved my ,now wife's, computer. Got loud with no one on it and alerted me to the high heat (wound up being a bad PSU).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanim View Post

2133mhz to 2400mhz is where performance gains get much lower, it'd be more worthwhile to save a few dollars on 2133mhz RAM.

Like these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231519

The weaker the iGPU(A8-6600K has 256 cores, compared to 384 of the A10-6800K, or 512 of the a10-7800K), the less memory speeds has an impact on performance.
Agreed.
post #53 of 55
Majin,

I think that Richland is in many ways a more appropriate choice than Kaveri *at this time* for a mainstream desktop intended for use as a "traditional" desktop PC (web/email/toob etc box). Kaveri is effectively "beta-hardware." Sort of like Zambezi was to Piledriver. It's been a rough launch with lots of hurdles (bios support on launch was especially bad). If it were priced more competitively I'd be more inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt but as such, it is priced alongside that mainstream i5 that is solidly planted as proven technology. I would buy Kaveri for myself but I wouldn't put it in a machine I'm building for someone else at this time.

The Ripjaw Z series you have picked out is one of the finest memory kits available in it's price class right now. It would be the type of kit I would buy for myself, as an enthusiast performance tuner. It would not be the type of memory I would place in a machine that is intended to be configured to run at stock speeds. It's my opinion that non-overclocking/performance-tuning builds should be built with memory whose default XMP profile matches the supported speed of the memory controller. I repeat this mantra in pretty much all threads that are concerning a "stock clocked" rig. For Intel that means 1333-1866MT/s in most cases, and for AMD, that means 1600-2133 in most cases. The performance gains available by exceeding the memory controller's supported speeds on AMD are very narrow; But the chances of it introducing instability are high. Running at speeds above that which is supported can require voltage adjustments to the CPU-NB to stabilize. I've done extensive performance testing on 3 AMD platforms (Stars, Richland, and Vishera) and found in every case that performance scaling beyond rated speeds is minuscule, and sometimes even worse than just running tighter timings at the supported speeds, even on a Richland A10 with the "full" 384 shaders, performance scaling in gaming benchmarks tapered off above 2133MT/s.

Volumetrically speaking, the bitfenix case is enormous. It's almost as large as my mid-tower case. It will have a TON of totally wasted space on system with a single SSD. There are dozens of great cases that are a fraction of the size of the Prodigy that I believe would be a much better use of space. I'll share some ideas here a little later....

If you'll allow it, I'm going to continue my debate with Durq below, feel free to ignore the following...










Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

I am no shill being I have NEVER not once bashed Intel users for their choice nor have I lied in order to make the outcome favorable to my standpoint. Making such accusations is in poor choice and likely not one you would ever make present. Beyond that lets make some valid points:

Almost ALL of your posts have overtones of AMD favoritism bursting from between the words. I've never once heard you mutter a fair and balanced contrast of AMD vs Intel solutions.
Quote:
Fact: This is your first post and notice no inquiring not even acknowledging the original stated use.

We had a fair idea of the intended use, I made a build that would be faster, quieter, and more efficient for the intended use with higher quality parts at a lower cost. If I had pointed out a way to do the build better with a different AMD CPU you'd have absolutely no qualms.
Quote:
I pointed out where the problem started and this isn't the only thread you have done this. Ask any poster, when the original build starts in the AMD or Intel thread it is in VERY POOR taste to go in and without provocation (the OP asking for the information contradictory to the original post build) giving said contradictory information.

You're holding the CPU brand choice in a "special light" that only exists in your head. Quit trying to "lock in" and "protect" the AMD selection like your first born's life depends on it. If it's in bad taste to point out a more competitive CPU choice, then it would have to be in equally bad taste to point out ANY ALTERNATIVE hardware. You're trying to sell me a false social convention on computer hardware recommendations set aside for only the CPU selection. Such an idea could only be born of an absolutely entrenched loyalist.
Quote:
I don't condone others going into rival threads using negative language in the ruse of JUST giving information.

In your mind, ANYTHING sounds negative if it doesn't paint the AMD solution is the better solution. There's no way in the world that I could state that an i5 is a better CPU than Kaveri for this build without you thinking I've slayed an innocent bunny.
Quote:
As far as Kaveri I do not think Good enough covers it. It is AMAZING. With the 14.3beta that sucker screams. It isn't the step down you like to pretend it is. At 45W it performs very well at nearly 80% of the 95W performance. The APU just releasedin Feb and it has only been 2 months, almost. The performance from launch has increased dramatically.

If you think that Kaveri offers a compelling solution for this build, you should start explaining your reasoning to the OP and stop complaining about me. The ability to "Set" Kaveri to a lower supported TDP is a great feature that gives AMD a better entry to the mainstream in many ways.

ANY unlocked CPU can deliver ~80% of it's performance at about half of it's rated TDP with performance tuning. The only thing that differentiates Kaveri in this matter, is that they included it as a "setting" that doesn't require any sophisticated tuning. It's my opinion that the main advantage to budget AMD hardware is the ability to performance tune it, where Intel has things locked down. For many users, the "TDP settings" will just be redundant as they would have achieved improved compute efficiency or performance or both through performance tuning anyway. When the user isn't going to be performance tuning at all, then Intel offers better "stock" performance and compute efficiency for most non-specialized workloads. Kaveri's "supported" reduced TDP settings are like a short-cut to alternative "tunes" that mainstream builds can take advantage of. It is compelling and interesting, but as I pointed out, even in this "reduced" TDP mode, it's still out-performed by Haswell.
Quote:
NOW I WILL GO ON RECORD TO SAY THAT I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THE i5 BUILD. I was not even trying to change the OPs mind, they made that decision and it isn't my place to tell them what they need to do. It saddened me that they had, more so when I felt the attempt at changing their decision to the i5 was poorly placed given the criteria.

Honestly evaluate what you have said here. I believe that you are very self conflicted about the issue. If your feelings are being effected by someone else's CPU choice then I believe you have some favoritism that is deeply entrenched in your psyche. It's probably not particularly healthy. I encourage you to find an appreciation and a positive attitude about ALL computer hardware. When you come full circle (which will involve a session of "nothing matters") you can get back to honestly comparing and contrasting hardware and spend less time being hurt by the likes of someone like me.
Quote:
But I was not trying and nor did I the moment you started your debate. I have been following the thread since minute one just like the 8350 build, both of which I refrained from saying a word. But based on your assessment of me I should have been all over your first post, but I wasn't. Don't you think you are wrong about me?

I'd like to believe that there's great opportunity for you to develop a broader appreciation for computer hardware that has "happiness" at the door to all sorts of brand choices.
Edited by mdocod - 3/29/14 at 7:26am
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
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LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
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post #54 of 55
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Majin,

I think that Richland is in many ways a more appropriate choice than Kaveri *at this time* for a mainstream desktop intended for use as a "traditional" desktop PC (web/email/toob etc box). Kaveri is effectively "beta-hardware." Sort of like Zambezi was to Piledriver. It's been a rough launch with lots of hurdles (bios support on launch was especially bad). If it were priced more competitively I'd be more inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt but as such, it is priced alongside that mainstream i5 that is solidly planted as proven technology. I would buy Kaveri for myself but I wouldn't put it in a machine I'm building for someone else at this time.

The Ripjaw Z series you have picked out is one of the finest memory kits available in it's price class right now. It would be the type of kit I would buy for myself, as an enthusiast performance tuner. It would not be the type of memory I would place in a machine that is intended to be configured to run at stock speeds. It's my opinion that non-overclocking/performance-tuning builds should be built with memory whose default XMP profile matches the supported speed of the memory controller. I repeat this mantra in pretty much all threads that are concerning a "stock clocked" rig. For Intel that means 1333-1866MT/s in most cases, and for AMD, that means 1600-2133 in most cases. The performance gains available by exceeding the memory controller's supported speeds on AMD are very narrow; But the chances of it introducing instability are high. Running at speeds above that which is supported can require voltage adjustments to the CPU-NB to stabilize. I've done extensive performance testing on 3 AMD platforms (Stars, Richland, and Vishera) and found in every case that performance scaling beyond rated speeds is minuscule, and sometimes even worse than just running tighter timings at the supported speeds, even on a Richland A10 with the "full" 384 shaders, performance scaling in gaming benchmarks tapered off above 2133MT/s.

Volumetrically speaking, the bitfenix case is enormous. It's almost as large as my mid-tower case. It will have a TON of totally wasted space on system with a single SSD. There are dozens of great cases that are a fraction of the size of the Prodigy that I believe would be a much better use of space. I'll share some ideas here a little later....

If you'll allow it, I'm going to continue my debate with Durq below, feel free to ignore the following...

Almost ALL of your posts have overtones of AMD favoritism bursting from between the words. I've never once heard you mutter a fair and balanced contrast of AMD vs Intel solutions.
We had a fair idea of the intended use, I made a build that would be faster, quieter, and more efficient for the intended use with higher quality parts at a lower cost. If I had pointed out a way to do the build better with a different AMD CPU you'd have absolutely no qualms.
You're holding the CPU brand choice in a "special light" that only exists in your head. Quit trying to "lock in" and "protect" the AMD selection like your first born's life depends on it. If it's in bad taste to point out a more competitive CPU choice, then it would have to be in equally bad taste to point out ANY ALTERNATIVE hardware. You're trying to sell me a false social convention on computer hardware recommendations set aside for only the CPU selection. Such an idea could only be born of an absolutely entrenched loyalist.
In your mind, ANYTHING sounds negative if it doesn't paint the AMD solution is the better solution. There's no way in the world that I could state that an i5 is a better CPU than Kaveri for this build without you thinking I've slayed an innocent bunny.
If you think that Kaveri offers a compelling solution for this build, you should start explaining your reasoning to the OP and stop complaining about me. The ability to "Set" Kaveri to a lower supported TDP is a great feature that gives AMD a better entry to the mainstream in many ways.

ANY unlocked CPU can deliver ~80% of it's performance at about half of it's rated TDP with performance tuning. The only thing that differentiates Kaveri in this matter, is that they included it as a "setting" that doesn't require any sophisticated tuning. It's my opinion that the main advantage to budget AMD hardware is the ability to performance tune it, where Intel has things locked down. For many users, the "TDP settings" will just be redundant as they would have achieved improved compute efficiency or performance or both through performance tuning anyway. When the user isn't going to be performance tuning at all, then Intel offers better "stock" performance and compute efficiency for most non-specialized workloads. Kaveri's "supported" reduced TDP settings are like a short-cut to alternative "tunes" that mainstream builds can take advantage of. It is compelling and interesting, but as I pointed out, even in this "reduced" TDP mode, it's still out-performed by Haswell.
Honestly evaluate what you have said here. I believe that you are very self conflicted about the issue. If your feelings are being effected by someone else's CPU choice then I believe you have some favoritism that is deeply entrenched in your psyche. It's probably not particularly healthy. I encourage you to find an appreciation and a positive attitude about ALL computer hardware. When you come full circle (which will involve a session of "nothing matters") you can get back to honestly comparing and contrasting hardware and spend less time being hurt by the likes of someone like me.
I'd like to believe that there's great opportunity for you to develop a broader appreciation for computer hardware that has "happiness" at the door to all sorts of brand choices.
The richland chip is a good choice but I feel you have no real basis for an opinion on the Kaveri at this time. I have experience with it and as of today it is performing well and in no way akin to bulldozer as you put it (this is the part I was talking about, attaching negative tones to your statements). Either way Majin SSJ Eric you will be fine. Saving money on the richland will help keep the cost lower if that is a factor as well. I have experience with the richland as well and it is a great performer as well.


MDOCOD I have said what needed to be said, and no amount of you typing to the 1000 word limit will change that. But I will add this: Find an Intel build thread where I said they should use AMD instead posting volumes on top of volumes about why they should. You wont find it because I am a decent reasonable respectful honorable human being.

As I said I will speak no more on this subject and so your ego and you can keep each other company.
post #55 of 55
Posting a build recommendation with an alternative CPU makes me makes me me a unkind, ignorant, disrespectful, and distrustful person?

Sorry, I don't buy that. You're on your own with that.

I've been known to point out when AMD options offer potential advantages over Intel options in Intel build threads as well. When people have specialized needs at price points that Intel does not compete in, I'm just as comfortable being "bad" and comparing and contrasting CPU choice there. I'm not going to stoop to affirmative action policy for CPU choice. The color of the box is not important to me, the performance of what is inside that box is.
Edited by mdocod - 3/29/14 at 9:07am
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
Reply
     
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-8350 990X EVO R2.0 Sparkle GTX460 768MB ballistix tactical 2 x 8GB 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Toshiiba THNSNH 256GB Enterprise RE3 1TB Asus BD combo drive Artic A30 
OSMonitorMonitorMonitor
Manjaro Linux Samsung 21.5" LCD E2009WFP E2009WFP 
PowerCase
Seasonic G 550W Modular Fractal Design Core 3500 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX-6300, 4.7 GHZ@1.43V GA-970A-UD3P GTX 460 768MB Mixed DIMMs. 2x4GB + 2x8GB @ 1600-8-8-8 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Toshiba THNSNH 19nm 256GB 1TB Spinpoint F3 WD RE3 1TB WD RE3 1TB 
Optical DriveCoolingOSOS
yes CM Seidon 120V SolydK OpenSuse 13.1 
OSOSMonitorMonitor
Linux Mint 9-32 bit // Linux Mint 17-64 bit  Manjaro Xfce Samsung 21.5" HannsG 21.5" sideways! 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Sticky ATNG Rosewill Green 630W NZXT Gamma Basic Microsoft corded 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
A10-6800k 4.8GHZ @ 1.375V, 1.2GHZ iGPU Gigabyte GA-F2A85XN-WIFI HD8670D Ripjaws 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate ST1000DM003 Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Zalman CNPS5X Linux Mint 15 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG IPS224V-PN Logitec K360 FSP 400W Aurum S 80+ gold Prodigy 
Mouse
logitec M235 
  hide details  
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