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[KitGuru] Intel set to launch "Haswell-E" ahead of schedule in Q2 - Page 32

post #311 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLAWNOOB View Post

But consoles have 1.6Ghz AMD cores, which is the equivalent of 8 1Ghz Haswells or worse.

They're cores slower than bulldozer that are underclocked, molasses.
post #312 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by robE View Post

But in games there is also the poor optimization, we should encourage for better optimization than for more raw power and poor optimization tbh, because in this way we will never be satisfied with the core count.

It's also that most games simply don't need that powerful of a CPU until you're at 120Hz. That is to say, even on an FX or Phenom II it's nearly always been my GPU that's limiting me.

Although with the new consoles using a weak 8 core expect games to be better threaded in general which will be great for 120Hz and the like, less of a bottleneck that appears then.
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post #313 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

It's also that most games simply don't need that powerful of a CPU until you're at 120Hz. That is to say, even on an FX or Phenom II it's nearly always been my GPU that's limiting me.
In any game that requires high IPC for certain aspects, such as translating game state (multiplayer games), physics, or AI, the CPU will always matter. It might only give a 1 FPS bump, but it will cut frame times in half when other processors chug. That means smoother game play and lower input lag when it's most important.
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post #314 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalius View Post

In any game that requires high IPC for certain aspects, such as translating game state (multiplayer games), physics, or AI, the CPU will always matter. It might only give a 1 FPS bump, but it will cut frame times in half when other processors chug. That means smoother game play and lower input lag when it's most important.

Which is only noticeable to some people at best, as evidenced by the whole frame-time issue and SLI/CFX both having it prior to Kepler. There's a difference in some games but it's really not that many nor is it as big as people make it out to be...Anecdotal evidence but I've owned a Phenom II, FX, C2D and Ivy Bridge with the Ivy being far and away the fastest chip and the only time I'd say it was a noticeable difference in every game is going from that Core 2 Duo..which is a stock E6700 and was running with a GTX 470, with my HD7950 even in games where people often talk about stuttering and the like (eg. Skyrim, Far Cry 3) the difference between my FX-4170 and i5 3570k (Both at 4.5Ghz) is nothing. You don't even really have to overclock SB, IB or Haswell if all you want is a stable 1080p60 in most games. They simply don't need that kind of CPU power.

It's like buying a faster SSD, generally for consumers just having a decent SSD is enough to push the bottleneck elsewhere...Buying a faster one might give you a few improvements elsewhere but there's other areas you could improve and get a far, far bigger performance increase for less time/effort/money. (Another example is playing The Sims 3, that game is entirely HDD/SSD limited. I didn't see a single performance increase at all going from a Pentium Dual Core E2180 to my current i5 3570k, nor from the 9600GT I had then to my HD7950...Going from a 500GB Spinpoint F1 to a Crucial M4 256GB on the other hand was night and day in it.)
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post #315 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

You don't even really have to overclock SB, IB or Haswell if all you want is a stable 1080p60 in most games. They simply don't need that kind of CPU power.

A broken record is what you are. Why don't you try telling that to my stock 4770k which regularly falls short of maintaining 60FPS in Crysis, Crysis 2 Crysis 3, Battlefield 3, Far Cry 3, Hitman Absolution, Skyrim, Oblivion, Age of Empires III, Company of Heroes (not to mention all the games I haven't even tested on Haswell which used to miss the 60FPS target with my 2600k). No doubt these will all be on your list of convenient exceptions, but the fact is that there are a lot of older (or not so old in the case of Skyrim) games stuck on one or two threads that have trouble keeping above at/above 60FPS (even UT2004 just barely maintains 60fps on a stock 2600k in heavy onslaught games), and now we're getting modern games that are well threaded, but just incredibly CPU intensive that also end up being bottlenecked. So in truth, your "most games" is a minority that fits in between those two other categories of CPU bottlenecked games.
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post #316 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

well threaded, but just incredibly CPU intensive

Yes. That's true. Multithreading has major drawbacks most people here don't understand. The very act of threading a program alone has bottlenecks. This usually comes in the form of informing thread X that "OK, thread Y said OK to use that variable" because otherwise you get segfaults *and the program crashes. The only programs that are free of that, mostly, is off-line rendering like video encoding or loading-screens on games. But during pure gameplay, it's huge.

Another reason single threaded performance is HUGELY important is that games have to have a "parent thread". That's basically what determines the FPS. All others report to it. That basically means if you have an AMD with 666 threads and 1 thread can do 60fps (for the minimum jobs of the main thread) fine, you are set because the rest of the work is done by the 665 threads *IF* you were able to segment the work. But if you need the main thread to reach 60FPS on more heavy duty stuff that CANNOT be delegated to other threads as easily, then an Intel CPU will shine because it will give the other 7 threads the job that *can* be delegated but have 1 powerful thread to keep the horse going.
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post #317 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

A broken record is what you are. Why don't you try telling that to my stock 4770k which regularly falls short of maintaining 60FPS in Crysis, Crysis 2 Crysis 3, Battlefield 3, Far Cry 3, Hitman Absolution, Skyrim, Oblivion, Age of Empires III, Company of Heroes (not to mention all the games I haven't even tested on Haswell which used to miss the 60FPS target with my 2600k). No doubt these will all be on your list of convenient exceptions, but the fact is that there are a lot of older (or not so old in the case of Skyrim) games stuck on one or two threads that have trouble keeping above at/above 60FPS (even UT2004 just barely maintains 60fps on a stock 2600k in heavy onslaught games), and now we're getting modern games that are well threaded, but just incredibly CPU intensive that also end up being bottlenecked. So in truth, your "most games" is a minority that fits in between those two other categories of CPU bottlenecked games.

Yup just watching your gpu usage and then comparing between different frequencies shows increases in gpu usage and fps in line with the increases in cpu frequency. It's nearly impossible to maintain 60fps in crysis 1 in any area with lots of AI and physics objects, even my old 2500k clocked at 4.8Ghz would drop to the lower 50's in any area with lots of AI and I get even lower fps on this cpu since crysis 1 only uses 2 threads and it's clocked lower. You can see huge drops in gpu usage and fps dropping into the upper 30's in almost any outdoors area in crysis 3 and I actually saw a nearly 40% increase in minimum fps when I switched from my 2500k to this 3930k and my gpu usage now is pegged at 90-100% rather than dropping to the 60% area in any intensive part. There are plenty of other cpu intensive games as well that show the same improvements. This cpu was pretty much required to push my old sli 780's to 100% usage in lots of newer cpu intensive games that support more threads.

Obviously it's going to depend on the game and how cpu dependent it is but It's a joke to even attempt to claim a 4770k can play everything at 60 fps at stock,.
Edited by scyy - 3/22/14 at 9:44am
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post #318 of 335
So does the design for DDR4 make it any faster than DDR3 or is the only real benefit lower voltage and greater density?
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post #319 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by navynuke499 View Post

So does the design for DDR4 make it any faster than DDR3 or is the only real benefit lower voltage and greater density?

Significant speed increases will not come until later. Early DDR4 will be just as you described.
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post #320 of 335
So when do we start seeing motherboards? I want a Rampage V Gene.
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