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[TechSoda] Waiting on 20nm graphics cards from Nvidia and AMD? Don’t bother. - Page 4

post #31 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

I still think we'll see 20nm graphics.

However if we don't, at least we know that Nvidia has a good architecture for 28nm already out *cough* 1450MHz maxwell @ 1.16v *cough*

Hawaii has higher transistor density (15% higher if memory serves, hawaii at same density as GK110 would be over 500mm^2). It has more transistors packed to every square millimeter. Relative to its potential max clock speeds hawaii is also clocked higher and runs a higher stock voltage than GK110.

So technically Nvidia could clock their cards closer to their max and increase density, while AMD could increase die size.

That said if 28nm happens to be here to stay (at least until TSMC's fake 16nm finfets) I'm pretty sure NV at least would much rather just update everything to maxwell.

That's if the clocking ability of the low end Maxwell cards carries over to the high end.

A great read though.
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post #32 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by L36 View Post


True but that's partly due to the chips density. Hawaii has a far superior transistor to area density that Kepler, thus why its hot. While Kepler has some design aspects that keep it cool, you're missing the point of increasing costs because the people that design the chips like to get paid well.

It's not that they "like to get paid well" , it's that people of that caliber need years of experience and the pool of eligible people to design is low. Why should they work for AMD/Nvidia if they could get more elsewhere doing embedded or other ASICs?

Low supply, super high demand = higher price (salary).


---

Maxwell has proven you can get more per watt on a mature 28nm process. If a 28nm GM106 or mid-end GM104 just doubled everything on GM107 it'd still be ok (1280 shaders is roughly GTX 760 or even GTX 670 performance since GM107's 640 shaders is roughly GTX 650 Ti's 768 shaders).

Hawaii has proven the same. In loads that aren't GPGPU or mining it uses less power than a well overclocked Tahiti.

What's in common to both is more power states and less double precision floating point processing (irrelevant for most people).
Edited by AlphaC - 3/14/14 at 10:51am
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post #33 of 70
I have a fiend who works for Nvidia and he claims that they are currently working on 20nm for the cards coming out in q4 of 2014. So Nvidia is definitely planning on coming out with 20 nm cards before the end of the year. He also told me that there will be no more die shrinks for a while after the next couple years because they are going to start hitting hard limits soon.

I however have no way to prove this or validate it so take it for what it's worth to you.
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post #34 of 70
Time for graphene?
post #35 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamhollywood5 View Post

Time for graphene?

I think we've been waiting on anything graphene for a long time now. Does anyone even know if we have graphene in use now outside a lab?

edit: just looked, theres alternatives on the same scale and style as graphene that could better suit existing computing options. Silicene and Germanene (silicon and germanium based lattice structures). Basically, give it a decade and we may see useful things coming from nano-lattice materials in the consumer market.
Edited by Valor958 - 3/14/14 at 11:14am
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post #36 of 70
Thread Starter 
There are several start up companies based off technology created in my university alone that employ different versions of graphene in applications now.
post #37 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

There are several start up companies based off technology created in my university alone that employ different versions of graphene in applications now.

Far from being practical to build a computer processor. Graphene has nice applications but is very expensive to work with. There are cheaper alternative and more promising.
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post #38 of 70
Thread Starter 
There are still major tricks to play with Silicon itself but some big companies have tried to stop this from being implemented. I can't say much more but let's just say some people have solutions others would not like to get out in the world.
post #39 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by geggeg View Post

There are still major tricks to play with Silicon itself but some big companies have tried to stop this from being implemented. I can't say much more but let's just say some people have solutions others would not like to get out in the world.

I'd say Silicene is probably one of those major tricks, since it would still allow us to work with silicon, but on a nano-scale. Bureaucracy sucks frown.gif Too many ground breaking achievements stymied by red-tape and senseless greed of the big companies.
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post #40 of 70

What I take a way is that 20 nm cards even with good yields, will be expensive. Then will be cheaper later but not as much as they used to. Kind of what I was expecting. They can still make a 500mm2 Maxwell but it will take longer, be called GTX 980 and cost 900 bucks - on sale.

 

 

EDIT: More a matter of costs than any thing else. 

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