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finished water cool setup, cpu temp spikes/drops

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
I don't have any current pics of it "completed". There is still some work to do but the water loop for the most part is done.

Specs in loop;
i4770k (stock)
EVGA GTX 660 SC (nonTi stock)

Specs of loop;
MCP355 w/ Koolance top
EK full cover GPU
XSPC Raystorm CPU
Coolgate 280mm
4x Aero Cool Shark Red in Push/Pull


Tonight is my first night testing after modding. So far the GPU temps appear good but the CPU temps not so much.

In game (CS GO);
GPU never broke 41c
CPU was 55-60c across cores

When I ran Intel burn test, it go weird?
After a couple seconds, temps would spike to 60's, then spike again to mid 80's. I would hear the fans spin up faster and the temps would lower back to the 50's, then back up to the 80's and repeat. All while the CPU temps would fluctuate, the GPU stayed steady at 24c.

I do have temp sensors on the CPU and GPU block and immediately thought I had it too close at it caused a seating issue. I pulled the block off, removed the sensor and saw I may have used too little paste and dabbed a bit more in the bare spots. Reseated and repeated temp issue...

Idle CPU
27, 25, 24, 22
Idle GPU
23-24

I did have an H80i installed. From what I remember it was a little better.
Idle CPU
18-25c
I don't remember load temps. I think they would sit in the upper 50s - mid 60's. With 4.2 OC at 1.174v i want to say i hit 75c.

I have the pump on a molex connector, not PWM. The 4 P/P fans are on the PWM connectors on the board.


I am thinking it is a seating issue on the CPU (it appears the block may be resting on the locking plate around the cpu) and looking for more insight to possible issues.

Thank you in advance,
Outlaw
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post #2 of 32
you didnt reapply more tim? you only put some in the bare spots? thats not right, at all.

its an easy mistake, did you peel the plastic from the bottom of the raystorm? are you sure you used the inlet as the inlet and didnt swap the around? are you sure you completely bled the air out?
how soon can you get pictures up? that would really help.
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post #3 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

you didnt reapply more tim? you only put some in the bare spots? thats not right, at all.

its an easy mistake, did you peel the plastic from the bottom of the raystorm? are you sure you used the inlet as the inlet and didnt swap the around? are you sure you completely bled the air out?
how soon can you get pictures up? that would really help.

No, I did not reapply, Just added more. I have done this in the past without issue. I can clean and reapply though to rule that out.

I did remove the plastic and cleaned block with isopropyl alcohol

I used the one marked "IN". Loop order- Pump>GPU>CPU>Rad>Pump

I bled as much as I could, I think it was all. I kept bleeding until there was no more air cycling through the pump and I could not physically see any left in the GPU block.

Unfortunately, I didn't think to take a pic of paste application when I removed the block but here are some pics











I know it isn't plumbed here, but it is how it's current mounted with the port with the barb going to the GPU


Also, thinking about it too now is that I had the temp sensors on during the testing. All 3 sensors were within 1-2c. If the block was making contact with the CPU, wouldn't the temp sensor have at least been off more?

Thanks for the reply and hope the pics help.
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post #4 of 32
Quote:
When I ran Intel burn test, it go weird?
After a couple seconds, temps would spike to 60's, then spike again to mid 80's. I would hear the fans spin up faster and the temps would lower back to the 50's, then back up to the 80's and repeat.

This is what Intelburntest does, it only loads your CPU like two thirds of the time on default.

Your temperatures are hot because of the stress test you chose, make absolutely sure to use manual voltage, not any other voltage mode, monitor it with ~cpu-z 1.64.0, hwinfo, i'm not sure what else works well for your board but lots of stuff does not.

Check out the Haswell overclocking thread with statistics. Lots of info in OP, you can ask questions there. As for IBT, if you want constant high temps, set it to use most of available RAM.

Also, don't PWM to CPU load temperatures. If you insist on using an aggressive test, you kinda need to use something more aggressive and constant. Try with a constant RPM or PWM on water temps delta over ambient. CPU temps can spike with aggressive heat tests, like gain 40c in one second then cliff again - fans are simply not quick enough to respond, nor smart enough to keep cooling heatsinks/rad's etc to prevent them from heating up over time. They see 40c and think oh, there's no load or heat and turn themselves off, when they should be cooling down those things.

I'm thinking issue is with your test methodology and if not, then with cpu to block contact
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/15/14 at 8:31am
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post #5 of 32
^ +1
this why i always argue against using the cpu fan pwm for water cooling. it doesnt help much if at all.
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post #6 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

This is what Intelburntest does, it only loads your CPU like two thirds of the time on default.

Your temperatures are hot because of the stress test you chose, make absolutely sure to use manual voltage, not any other voltage mode, monitor it with ~cpu-z 1.64.0, hwinfo, i'm not sure what else works well for your board but lots of stuff does not.

Check out the Haswell overclocking thread with statistics. Lots of info in OP, you can ask questions there. As for IBT, if you want constant high temps, set it to use most of available RAM.

Also, don't PWM to CPU load temperatures. If you insist on using an aggressive test, you kinda need to use something more aggressive and constant. Try with a constant RPM or PWM on water temps delta over ambient. CPU temps can spike with aggressive heat tests, like gain 40c in one second then cliff again - fans are simply not quick enough to respond, nor smart enough to keep cooling heatsinks/rad's etc to prevent them from heating up over time. They see 40c and think oh, there's no load or heat and turn themselves off, when they should be cooling down those things.

I'm thinking issue is with your test methodology and if not, then with cpu to block contact

Thanks for the info.
I will use the hwinfo with a different stress test. I was using it before this WC configuration and it was a lot more steady BUT i may have played with settings before running. Also, it does change voltage due to "turbo", anywhere from 1.101v-1.140v.

The fan noise increase was nice in that it showed me the readings weren't "wrong" as the motherboard did detect the high temp and try to cool it down. I do only have the fans on the motherboard. These can also be moved over to a molex for constant 7 or 12v though if needed.

I did attempt to do a futuremark, but something failed to install properly. When I get home tonight, I will try it again. I wanted to test the GPU out of game to see how everything responded. While gaming, the fans were quite as well as the temps.

I was expecting some jump as the water has to have a chance to pull the heat away, but wasn't expecting something this radical. I will try another set of tests, monitor tool and check out the haswell oc thread.

Thanks again,
Outlaw
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post #7 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

^ +1
this why i always argue against using the cpu fan pwm for water cooling. it doesnt help much if at all.

I only used because they were there and I didn't have to rewire anything to get the system usuable for testing.

They are added to my list of rewire for the molex connector.


Here is what I was talking about having to clean up already. lol (Yes that is 8 connectors. No worries, only 3/5mm leds and lcd temp displays)
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post #8 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw8505 View Post

I only used because they were there and I didn't have to rewire anything to get the system usuable for testing.

They are added to my list of rewire for the molex connector.


Here is what I was talking about having to clean up already. lol (Yes that is 8 connectors. No worries, only 3/5mm leds and lcd temp displays)

its understandable but stop and think about how many say its ok to use them like that. big time water coolers and money is no object builders use pwm fans and others think its ok. they dont stop to think and realize those 'other guys' are using aqueros and stuffs while pwm'ing according to water temps from temp readings through the aquero. others buy pwm fans then buy a fan controller that only voltage controls. those people should research more. pwm is not for voltage control. motherboard pwm control is not for water cooling.
but as i said, i understand why you did it.
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post #9 of 32
Quote:
Also, it does change voltage due to "turbo", anywhere from 1.101v-1.140v.

You need to make sure that you're measuring Vcore and not VID. Also, LLC on Haswell is not for vcore, it won't change your reading here. It's for the VRIN, which is the voltage provided from mobo to CPU IVR
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post #10 of 32
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pc-illiterate View Post

its understandable but stop and think about how many say its ok to use them like that. big time water coolers and money is no object builders use pwm fans and others think its ok. they dont stop to think and realize those 'other guys' are using aqueros and stuffs while pwm'ing according to water temps from temp readings through the aquero. others buy pwm fans then buy a fan controller that only voltage controls. those people should research more. pwm is not for voltage control. motherboard pwm control is not for water cooling.
but as i said, i understand why you did it.

Thanks and that does make a lot of sense. Honestly, as I'm sure we all already knew, if this had not happened, I would have likely just left the fans on the motherboard PWM headers (or i would have my ocd kick in and re cable to match sleeving anyways). that aquaeros looks sweet but way too much stuff for me and no room to mount. I will stick to my basic probs and monitors. Thanks again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

You need to make sure that you're measuring Vcore and not VID. Also, LLC on Haswell is not for vcore, it won't change your reading here. It's for the VRIN, which is the voltage provided from mobo to CPU IVR

Thanks. Once I get home I will make sure to use the hwinfo an watch for VID. I haven't had all this new stuff before (upgraded from 775 setup) or for that long yet. I've only done the OC up to 4.2 with a multiplier increase which auto adjusted voltage. I was hoping to learn/do more once the WC was done.


Questions;
1. If steps to be completed above do not work, should i consider removing the cpu lock down bracket? I have seen and watched a few vids of people doing it for delidding. I had considered that also but not until I know one cause and result first.
.....Need to do; Install HWinfo (monitor temps/Vcore), New stress test software, wire/plug in fans to molex, reapply TIM

2. Should I re-install my reservoir and re-bleed the system?
3. Should I leave the reservoir installed (this will change HDD location, possibly need to buy pump top res)?

Thanks again for the fast replies and help
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