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post #8041 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by IT Diva View Post

I'm eager to learn, and don't forget to explain how a fan tach circuit works, the pwm part . . .

Thanks in advance,

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloppyDingo View Post

All RGB LEDs that I am aware of, regardless of if they are 5050 SMD, 3mm, 5mm etc. operate on the same basic principal. The faster the PWM frequency, the brighter the light. In most cases, this is scaled from 0 to 255. In reality, they are flashing, just at a much higher rate than our brains can "see". The slower the frequency, the dimmer the light appears is only because the blink rate is slower with more darkness between the pulses.

As for the potential of damaging the LEDs I find it highly unlikely. PWM signal is 3.3-5V, regardless if its for a LED or the speed signal into or out of a fan. So even if one of the three RGB signals are somehow muxed with the fans speed signal it wouldn't negatively affect the LEDs operation. You would probably just see some odd behavior from one of the colors in the LEDs.

I'm on a trip for my company right now. When I return home in a few weeks, I intend on purchasing one of these and one of the new Corsair LED fans to experiment with. My goal is to make the fan speed, telemetry as well as the RGB control independent and controllable from the RGB header and PWM header on the Aquaero... My current thought is that you should be able to just figure out what pins are for RGB and plug those wires directly into the RGB header of the Aquaero then possibly use the "fan control" as just a PWM splitter for the fan speed control and telemetry.

I am of course not suggesting anyone try anything they aren't comfortable with, just that in my professional experience I don't see much potential for damaging the LEDs or the fan by doing what I have explained. As I kinda said this is all gleaned from personal experience and what I have seen in pictures of the fan being taken apart. I will of course use a meter and my scope to determine what pins are what before I go hooking anything up.

Good article on RGB LED operation...
https://developer.mbed.org/users/4180_1/notebook/rgb-leds/

No Darlene you can't quit on us!!! You were my first contact with OCN when you helped me with that voltage divider/amplifier circuit and at the end told me to buy an AQ6 and call it a day, been happier since then!

Anyway I'm a non practicing EE but I had to figure that the LED signals were muxed into the 5 wires. From my short tests I was able to determine that pins 1 and 3 have frequencies muxed into them and they both changed as the colors changed. I know about the dimmer frequencies on LEDs that make them appear as a different colors to the naked eye when mixed with the basic colors of red/green/blue. I stand by my point not to plug in the 5 pin fans into a conventional 4 pin PWM controller somehow. You could damage stuff...

Darlene, in another topic but related to this. Do you know what would cause the PWM signal fed to this thing would drown out the signal that is fed to other types of hub/fans? Here is what I tried.

Noctua PWM fan is not receiving enough power on the PWM pin to drive it and will not even spin. I used a Silverstone active hub as well as a pheobya passive hub. None would work. Is it possible to drop the pwm voltage enough to non conventional PWM levels so the TT fans still get enough signal and the rest of the fans don't get enough? Maybe they did this on purpose so that you just don't mix this with other fans? Writing this I thought I'd measure the voltage difference on the TT controller PWM input and on a regular fan actually to help try to figure this out.

Editing this to add my little test result.
PWM signal from AQ6 around 2.2v RMS
PWM signal after you plug in the TT fan module around 600mv RMS.

I'm not too sure if I want to keep those things in my rig now but it's too late to return them. They do look nice though but thinking back I should have stuck to my TT boycott. If those controllers fry my AQ6 I'll forever never buy anything from TT ever again no matter how shiny it is but I'm sure it will be fine. Anyone have any comforting words about this test let me know...
Edited by Artah - 7/10/16 at 2:44pm
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post #8042 of 11415
Wow. This will be a fun chat won't it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trestles126 View Post

i have had my aquearo 6 running software temp sensors for 2 years now i recently updated 8.1 to windows 10 and i believe the unit was reading temps. but now they are at the fall back temp of 50 for everyone. when i go into software temp settings and go to select data source it says nothing is available. even though openhardwaremonitor is running in my task bar and works fine. any experience with this?

FYI open hardware monitor imo sucks. A ton of glitches imo try out hwinfo64 (or 32 if using 32 bit *shudder*

Also yes you may need to reinstall aqusuite or the monitoring program
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffhi View Post

I'm in the process of connecting my new Aquaero (first time owner) and I was trying to research how to turn the PC off if the pump RPM dropped to zero. I have the ability to run a tac signal to the motherboard and it looks like I can put an alert into the bios (fan drops to zero). Is that a solution? Is it the best solution? Are there other solutions? If so, are they better?

I did some searching in this thread and found some references but not any thing definitive.

Congrats and welcome

I am a bit lost are you asking about a rpm signal?

1 use the 3 pin write that came with aquaero or make your own (iirc female to female).

2 plug into cpu fan header and RPM/tachometer.

DO NOT PLUG IT INTO FLOW IT WILL DAMAGE YOUR UNIT or aquabus ect.

Check check and double check

3 iirc in Aquasuite go to alarms. And then normal operation switch to send rpm signal (not at pc atm but you should be able to figure it out from here )

As to cutting power.

You will use a relay and either the 3 pole relay plug (may be able to use a 2 pole idr) some have used single dupont 2.54mm pins as well

You would cut the "ps-on" wire of the 24 pinand put one side to come (aka common) and the other to NC (normally closed)

Then in alarms you would set which ever alarm result to open relay for ... (where "..." is the amount of time) then set up an alarm where if your flow/ or pump RPM failed it would trigger that alarm level.


Hope this helps and is what you wanted
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post #8043 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Wow. This will be a fun chat won't it.
FYI open hardware monitor imo sucks. A ton of glitches imo try out hwinfo64 (or 32 if using 32 bit *shudder*

Also yes you may need to reinstall aqusuite or the monitoring program
Congrats and welcome

I am a bit lost are you asking about a rpm signal?

1 use the 3 pin write that came with aquaero or make your own (iirc female to female).

2 plug into cpu fan header and RPM/tachometer.

DO NOT PLUG IT INTO FLOW IT WILL DAMAGE YOUR UNIT or aquabus ect.

Check check and double check

3 iirc in Aquasuite go to alarms. And then normal operation switch to send rpm signal (not at pc atm but you should be able to figure it out from here )

As to cutting power.

You will use a relay and either the 3 pole relay plug (may be able to use a 2 pole idr) some have used single dupont 2.54mm pins as well

You would cut the "ps-on" wire of the 24 pinand put one side to come (aka common) and the other to NC (normally closed)

Then in alarms you would set which ever alarm result to open relay for ... (where "..." is the amount of time) then set up an alarm where if your flow/ or pump RPM failed it would trigger that alarm level.


Hope this helps and is what you wanted
Mega, can you make a quick summary of what needs to be done so that I can monitor the CPU temp using AQ6 with hwinfo64 if it's even possible? Thanks in advance.
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post #8044 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artah View Post

Mega, can you make a quick summary of what needs to be done so that I can monitor the CPU temp using AQ6 with hwinfo64 if it's even possible? Thanks in advance.

I have found two things with using hwinfo64 or aida64 as the source for the CPU temperature.

1. A reading is not obtained until the system finishes booting and loads the program.

2. The temperature swings with these programs can be very wide and rapid. Using them as in input to a controller for fans or pumps causes the fans to ramp up and down quickly in some situations.

I have found that inserting a temperature probe next to the CPU die provides a very stable, reliable source for the CPU temperature, and under stable conditions tracks the aida64 or hwinfo64 temperatures within about .5 degrees C*

This temperature responds to the CPU temperature changes more gradually, preventing the rapid fan ramping.

The temperature reading is also immediately available when the system starts, since there is no program loading needed.

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post #8045 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by wa3pnt View Post

I have found two things with using hwinfo64 or aida64 as the source for the CPU temperature.

1. A reading is not obtained until the system finishes booting and loads the program.

2. The temperature swings with these programs can be very wide and rapid. Using them as in input to a controller for fans or pumps causes the fans to ramp up and down quickly in some situations.

I have found that inserting a temperature probe next to the CPU die provides a very stable, reliable source for the CPU temperature, and under stable conditions tracks the aida64 or hwinfo64 temperatures within about .5 degrees C*

This temperature responds to the CPU temperature changes more gradually, preventing the rapid fan ramping.

The temperature reading is also immediately available when the system starts, since there is no program loading needed.

RodeoGeorge
That's some good info/observation. I think I'll do the same but will have to wait until I can pull water block out when I replace the 5930k with the 6950x. Any particular favorite spot where you put it next to the die on the ILM area?
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post #8046 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mega Man View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruffhi View Post

I'm in the process of connecting my new Aquaero (first time owner) and I was trying to research how to turn the PC off if the pump RPM dropped to zero. I have the ability to run a tac signal to the motherboard and it looks like I can put an alert into the bios (fan drops to zero). Is that a solution? Is it the best solution? Are there other solutions? If so, are they better?

I did some searching in this thread and found some references but not any thing definitive.

Congrats and welcome

I am a bit lost are you asking about a rpm signal?

Mega Man ... I mention RPM because I have a free signal that I can report the RPM of one of the pumps to the motherboard. My motherboard manual (ASUS X99-M) contains the following ...



... and, (I guess), I am just spitballing that I can use this motherboard alarm to turn the PC off. I could be way off board.

Edit: I did find this post ... http://www.overclock.net/t/1474470/ocn-aquaero-owners-club/2900_100#post_23341151
https://forum.aquacomputer.de/weitere-foren/english-forum/912-aquaero-mulitswitch-and-aquastream-connections/
http://www.aquatuning.us/air-cooling/controllers-accessories/2405/aquacomputer-aquaero-power-connect-24-pin-atx-standby-power-/-atx-break

Edited by ruffhi - 7/10/16 at 2:53pm
post #8047 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artah View Post


No Darlene you can't quit on us!!! You were my first contact with OCN when you helped me with that voltage divider/amplifier circuit and at the end told me to buy an AQ6 and call it a day, been happier since then!

Anyway I'm a non practicing EE but I had to figure that the LED signals were muxed into the 5 wires. From my short tests I was able to determine that pins 1 and 3 have frequencies muxed into them and they both changed as the colors changed. I know about the dimmer frequencies on LEDs that make them appear as a different colors to the naked eye when mixed with the basic colors of red/green/blue. I stand by my point not to plug in the 5 pin fans into a conventional 4 pin PWM controller somehow. You could damage stuff...

Muxed PWM Signals... wouldn't that then be PPM? I think you are thinking I was referring to the four pin fan headers... Absolutely not, this would definitely fry your LEDs Unless they were rated for 12 volts... I was referring to the four pin RGB LED header on the back of the Aquaero 6 or one of the four pin headers on the farbwerk LED controller. Sorry for any confusion there. I have seen the insides of these fans and there is nothing special about these LEDs.

So in your testing, how were you able to tell there was any muxing going on and what was being muxed together? If this were the case, why didnt the just combine all the PWM signals into one wire? what test equipment did you use? Also, what was going on with pins 2, 4 and 5?

IDK, just trying to come up with a solution. These fans would be a lot cooler if you could controll them with one of the Aquacomputer devices. Never intended to down anyone. Major levels of pasive agressiveness in here. Peace, man...
post #8048 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artah View Post

That's some good info/observation. I think I'll do the same but will have to wait until I can pull water block out when I replace the 5930k with the 6950x. Any particular favorite spot where you put it next to the die on the ILM area?

I have installed the probe both ways, before the water block installation, and after the water block installation.

When installing before the water block installation, I use one of the flat temp probes and place it on the side of the CPU die, making sure that it is below the surface of the die and won't interfere with the water block installation. I've held it in place with a dab of silicone. I also route and secure the probe wire so that any strain/movement of the wire does not disturb the probe location.

When installing after the water block is in place, I slide a flat Temp Probe in next to the CPU die from the hinged end of the CPU retainer. From here, it becomes a trial and error situation to move it around until it reads the same value (or very close) as that provided by aida64 or hwinfo64. Again, secure the Temp Probe wire so that it remains where placed.

As I mentioned earlier, I have been able to obtain reading that are very close to the aida64 reading. Right now I am looking at a Temp Probe reading of 27.6* C, and an aida64 reading of 28.0* C. Though the aida64 reading will jump around at times, when it is stable, they are very close.

Under a stress test, such as Prime95, the aida64 CPU reading will very quickly rise, and the Temp Probe reading will also rise at a slower rate. Normally within 2 minutes maximum the Temp Probe reading is very close to the aida64 reading. Also, when the Prime95 test is terminated, the aida64 CPU reading will quickly return to a much lower value, whereas the Temp Probe reading will slowly drop to the idle state reading. In my case, the radiator fans track the Temp Probe reading through an Aquaero 6XT Controller.

I have dual 360 radiators in push/pull in the top of a CL S8 case. The bottom 6 fans (in a push configuration) are on a curve that ramps them up when the CPU temperature rises above 28.0* C, with the 100% setting being 32.0* C on the Aquaero controller. The top 6 fans (in a pull configuration) run at an idle speed of 500 RPM until the CPU temperature rises above 29.5* C, at which time they also ramp up. I use the same 32.0* C setting on the top fans for 100% output.

The ambient temperature in my shop (where the computer is located) is normally around 23* C (73.4* F) in the Arizona summer heat.

RodeoGeorge
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post #8049 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloppyDingo View Post

Muxed PWM Signals... wouldn't that then be PPM? I think you are thinking I was referring to the four pin fan headers... Absolutely not, this would definitely fry your LEDs Unless they were rated for 12 volts... I was referring to the four pin RGB LED header on the back of the Aquaero 6 or one of the four pin headers on the farbwerk LED controller. Sorry for any confusion there. I have seen the insides of these fans and there is nothing special about these LEDs.

So in your testing, how were you able to tell there was any muxing going on and what was being muxed together? If this were the case, why didnt the just combine all the PWM signals into one wire? what test equipment did you use? Also, what was going on with pins 2, 4 and 5?

IDK, just trying to come up with a solution. These fans would be a lot cooler if you could controll them with one of the Aquacomputer devices. Never intended to down anyone. Major levels of pasive agressiveness in here. Peace, man...
I'm not downed at all no worries. I know you were just trying to help with your own curiosity. I didn't do an extensive test, I was just looking for anything that was producing some type of frequency in reference to ground on any of the leads and those two were the only ones that recorded something and they definitely do not match the conventional pins of ground, vcc, rpm and pwm on the first 4 pins. It is possible that 1 pin with a signal is used to control the RGB LED and the other is PWM. I should have tested incoming PWM to compare it to what's coming out to see if one of the frequencies match. I don't know if there is another circuit that controls how the red/green/blue LEDs on the fans would be powered but I don't want to take one apart smile.gif If you do more testing than I have please do share your results because I'm interested in modifying mine to lose that big ugly control box from TT.
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post #8050 of 11415
Quote:
Originally Posted by SloppyDingo View Post

Here we go....

If you look closely at the video, you will see small, black squares between each set of LEDs. These are ICs. Most likely WS2801 as they are very popular with this type of LED strips. They use data in, in the form of some type of serial communication and a clock signal. This way, color data for many different lights can be sent over a single pair of wires. Being that these these chips are addressable, you can have many ICs, controlling many different lights with the ICs wired in series with a single pair of wires, traces, whatever.... NOW on the output side, I'll give you three guesses as to what these chips use to control the LEds. And the first two don't count... Three channels (R, G and B!!!!) outputting PWM!! The three input wires are going to be be ground, clock and data. Often there is a fourth for a 12 volt source when driving alrge numbers of LEDs. I'm willing to bet money there is a chip similar to this inside the controller of the Riing lights driving PWM to the three fans attached to it. If you bypass this controller and plug the lights directly into the LED port on another LED controller that uses PWM you should be able to control the colors of the lights as it's simply outputting the PWM data on three of the four pins with the fourth being ground.

WS2801 Data Sheet ---->https://cdn-shop.adafruit.com/datasheets/WS2801.pdf

If we can make it past the LED thing, I'll explain how a PWM fan works.

I also would like to learn and am waiting with anticipation!!
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