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[Hot Hardware] Irate Gamers Launch Campaign Over Dark Souls II Console Graphics Downgrade - Page 24

post #231 of 241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBooNI View Post

Yes it did not list what issues it may has on their advertisement, but that goes with any advertisement. They are meant to generate sales.

I'm sorry but maybe you missed the basis for this thread and other recent threads like it. Deceptive advertising is the whole point. Being vague about the details of ported problems (which I have said many time over is significant to me) goes hand in hand with the deception.
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post #232 of 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2spartan View Post

Reviewers aren't these companies and if they were they'd surely be biased. Reviewers are generally customers like you or me and have to take a hit for the team so that we don't have to suffer the same.

Also, reviews are not always up before a game is released and if you buy a game before or on day one, they will not know what to expect. That is why I discourage the practice of preodering and buying a game on release if no solid reviews are available to read.

I think ads and showcased video should be up front about what platform it is running on and what issues you may run it to. The publisher already testified to knowing these issues beforehand and made the petitioners aware of what you would be getting but dismissed the primary avenue to get the message across to the vast majority and that is through advertising and sites where one is able to purchase the game.

Yes, I also discourage preordering, day 1 buying, or impulse buys off ads. All of these share having insufficient information about the product they are buying. I think having all the information (good and bad) on advertisements are great idea, but are you applying Darksouls advertising to a higher standard than ads of everything else? Considering most ads do not list their problems, do you share the same feelings on all products that do not list their issues on the ads? I already agreed that typically I might have issues with something like this, but I take certain things into consideration. I said this before how much money is at their disposal, how much time do they have to develop, and how large are the developers decides how much leeway I will give them. If the developers have a lot of money, a long development cycle, and are a big company I am willing to give much less leeway to them and forgive much less.
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post #233 of 241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBooNI View Post

Yes, I also discourage preordering, day 1 buying, or impulse buys off ads. All of these share having insufficient information about the product they are buying. I think having all the information (good and bad) on advertisements are great idea, but are you applying Darksouls advertising to a higher standard than ads of everything else? Considering most ads do not list their problems, do you share the same feelings on all products that do not list their issues on the ads? I already agreed that typically I might have issues with something like this, but I take certain things into consideration. I said this before how much money is at their disposal, how much time do they have to develop, and how large are the developers decides how much leeway I will give them. If the developers have a lot of money, a long development cycle, and are a big company I am willing to give much less leeway to them and forgive much less.

Yes I'm setting games to a higher standard because games and other digital media are much harder to return or get a refund. Yes, I've been able to get refunds before but not without struggle. That is why it is so important we know exactly what we are getting and they be upfront about it.

I am not as forgiving as you. I would like to think although some may want a game bad enough to have a rushed ported version to pc, most would rather have a clean pc tailored game and, yes, that could still be a multiplatform title. If this means a longer delay for the game, then so be it. If this means no game at all, then so be it. Just saved me some money anyway.
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post #234 of 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2spartan View Post

I'm sorry but maybe you missed the basis for this thread and other recent threads like it. Deceptive advertising is the whole point. Being vague about the details of ported problems (which I have said many time over is significant to me) goes hand in hand with the deception.

I am speaking primarily about the Darksouls 1 issue. I do not have Darksouls 2 and have not seen the pre release footage so I cannot say much about it. However, if what people say are true, that the footage showed previously looked much better than the release, it does appear to be misleading. The situation with Darksouls 1 though I feel differently about. I am basing my decision on a situation by situation basis. I am willing to give Darksouls a pass for the reasons I stated previously. You still not have answered my questions regarding advertising listing problems on products. Do you share these same feelings about all products not listing their issues on their advertisements. Obviously in a perfect world everyone would have all the information in front of them before they purchase something. But this information is easily found through a quick search. Even leading up to the Darksouls 1 release and after the petition various articles wrote that it was going to be a direct port. I believe you are trying to hold Darksouls to a higher standard than everything else when you ask them to list what problems they may have ( which may not be problems for some!) on their advertisement.
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post #235 of 241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBooNI View Post

You still not have answered my questions regarding advertising listing problems on products. Do you share these same feelings about all products not listing their issues on their advertisements.

Refer to my post above yours....My primary issue is with games and other such digital media advertisement for the reason specified.
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post #236 of 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2spartan View Post

Yes I'm setting games to a higher standard because games and other digital media are much harder to return or get a refund. Yes, I've been able to get refunds before but not without struggle. That is why it is so important we know exactly what we are getting and they be upfront about it.

I am not as forgiving as you. I would like to think although some may want a game bad enough to have a rushed ported version to pc, most would rather have a clean pc tailored game and, yes, that could still be a multiplatform title. If this means a longer delay for the game, then so be it. If this means no game at all, then so be it. Just saved me some money anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2spartan View Post

Yes I'm setting games to a higher standard because games and other digital media are much harder to return or get a refund. Yes, I've been able to get refunds before but not without struggle. That is why it is so important we know exactly what we are getting and they be upfront about it.

I am not as forgiving as you. I would like to think although some may want a game bad enough to have a rushed ported version to pc, most would rather have a clean pc tailored game and, yes, that could still be a multiplatform title. If this means a longer delay for the game, then so be it. If this means no game at all, then so be it. Just saved me some money anyway.

I am not asking if you are holding games in general to a higher standard. I am asking if you are holding Darksouls to a higher standard than other games, because as far as I know, no games list their issues on the advertisements. Yes, gamers are going to want a clean and tailored pc game, multiplatform, without bugs and a cheap price thumb.gif. However, if Darksouls 1 was developed to be multiplatform from the get go I would share your feelings as I said before. I disagree about the "if this means no game at all, then so be it" part. Many people have enjoyed the game on pc. I believe those who did not enjoy the game could have alleviated this by a quick google search. Look, I have purchased games I did not like, each time I blamed myself for buying day 1, or not dong the research on the game. For example, have you heard of War Z? It came out a little after Day Z was becoming popular. I heard bad things about the developer but there was a lot of hype around it. I preordered so I could get into the beta. What a ****ty game that was. Another example, Diablo 3 expansion, Reaper of Souls. They have a misleading advertisement in game that says you can try the new class if you upgrade to the expansion. It says something along the lines of TRY NOW! I believe. It then leads you to a page where it states that you have to wait for the 25th to try the class, but I must have missed it as many others have as I read. In these situations I blame myself, (though I hope D3 expansion is worth it) so when it comes to Darksousl 1 I blame the customer as well if they have not informed themselves before they buy. There also have been many games I wanted, but did not purchase and waited for the review. Doing this saved me money. For example, I never really got into BF3, but I heard many complaints early on about BF4 so I skipped out on it.
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post #237 of 241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBooNI View Post


I am not asking if you are holding games in general to a higher standard. I am asking if you are holding Darksouls to a higher standard than other games, because as far as I know, no games list their issues on the advertisements. Yes, gamers are going to want a clean and tailored pc game, multiplatform, without bugs and a cheap price thumb.gif. However, if Darksouls 1 was developed to be multiplatform from the get go I would share your feelings as I said before. I disagree about the "if this means no game at all, then so be it" part. Many people have enjoyed the game on pc. I believe those who did not enjoy the game could have alleviated this by a quick google search. Look, I have purchased games I did not like, each time I blamed myself for buying day 1, or not dong the research on the game. For example, have you heard of War Z? It came out a little after Day Z was becoming popular. I heard bad things about the developer but there was a lot of hype around it. I preordered so I could get into the beta. What a ****ty game that was. Another example, Diablo 3 expansion, Reaper of Souls. They have a misleading advertisement in game that says you can try the new class if you upgrade to the expansion. It says something along the lines of TRY NOW! I believe. It then leads you to a page where it states that you have to wait for the 25th to try the class, but I must have missed it as many others have as I read. In these situations I blame myself, (though I hope D3 expansion is worth it) so when it comes to Darksousl 1 I blame the customer as well if they have not informed themselves before they buy. There also have been many games I wanted, but did not purchase and waited for the review. Doing this saved me money. For example, I never really got into BF3, but I heard many complaints early on about BF4 so I skipped out on it.

Why would I hold DS to a higher standard than any other game? The problem, as I see it, is beyond any one game. If it was just one game then there would be no point to be made at all. I know no games list these details for the customers. That's the whole problem: their cognizant lack of clarification. The publishers/developers conveniently forget to leave out those details. It's not like it was a problem brought to their attention after the fact that they were completely oblivious to, although, that wouldn't speak highly of their product's quality either.

I just don't get why customers want to blame other customers for lack of knowledge and deflect blame from the companies who release unoptimized ports, happily take our money but have no intention of fixing it or making customers aware of potential problems.
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post #238 of 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2spartan View Post

Why would I hold DS to a higher standard than any other game? The problem, as I see it, is beyond any one game. If it was just one game then there would be no point to be made at all. I know no games list these details for the customers. That's the whole problem: their cognizant lack of clarification. The publishers/developers conveniently forget to leave out those details. It's not like it was a problem brought to their attention after the fact that they were completely oblivious to, although, that wouldn't speak highly of their product's quality either.

I just don't get why customers want to blame other customers for lack of knowledge and deflect blame from the companies who release unoptimized ports, happily take our money but have no intention of fixing it or making customers aware of potential problems.

I blame customers for lack of knowledge because the knowledge is out there and is easily found. Its not as if they were hush hush about the issues. What I don't understand are the customers who buy things without researching the product then blame the seller for not knowing what they were getting. Maybe if this information was secretive and difficult to find, but it is not. The reason I ask if you hold Darksouls to a higher standard than other games is because no games list their problems on their advertisements. This would make me angry at a lot of games if this was an issue for me. There is no reason to even believe what they would write anyways, they have a conflict of interest.

Do you think the customer has a responsibility to research something they are buying? I do not think the develop has a responsibility to list the issues on their advertisement. On an interview if questions are asked about it, yes they should say what issues they have.
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post #239 of 241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBooNI View Post

I blame customers for lack of knowledge because the knowledge is out there and is easily found. Its not as if they were hush hush about the issues. What I don't understand are the customers who buy things without researching the product then blame the seller for not knowing what they were getting. Maybe if this information was secretive and difficult to find, but it is not. The reason I ask if you hold Darksouls to a higher standard than other games is because no games list their problems on their advertisements. This would make me angry at a lot of games if this was an issue for me. There is no reason to even believe what they would write anyways, they have a conflict of interest.

Do you think the customer has a responsibility to research something they are buying? I do not think the develop has a responsibility to list the issues on their advertisement. On an interview if questions are asked about it, yes they should say what issues they have.

I think a customer should always wait a bit after the game is released to purchase, as I've stated before and then information will be widely available but let's face it, that will never happen with everyone and companies want it this way. So there will always be plenty of customers who purchase day one or before and expect the game to work well with whatever platform they purchased it for. Can you play DS1 in it's original state without modding? Yes. Would that be an enjoyable experience to everyone because of the ported problems associated with it? No. Do I think a game that is unoptimized for the platform you bought it for should warrant a refund if the customer is displeased with the product? Yes. But it doesn't matter that you can find info on random review sites. If you can't find it on a dev's/pub's official product page/store product listing/product description, then you have a case for their failure to officially disclose these technical issues for the pc that they were well aware of before releasing the game.

This information I speak of is not openly provided by the deveoplers/publishers because it puts their product in a bad light. The most useful information is generated by reviewers and other customers who bought the game so that we can benefit from it at their expense. But again, this is asking for people to hold off on their purchase to be able to read these reviews and that just isn't going to happen.
Edited by h2spartan - 3/21/14 at 2:49am
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post #240 of 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by h2spartan View Post

I think a customer should always wait a bit after the game is released to purchase, as I've stated before and then information will be widely available but let's face it, that will never happen with everyone and companies want it this way. So there will always be plenty of customers who purchase day one or before and expect the game to work well with whatever platform they purchased it for. Can you play DS1 in it's original state without modding? Yes. Would that be an enjoyable experience to everyone because of the ported problems associated with it? No. Do I think a game that is unoptimized for the platform you bought it for should warrant a refund if the customer is displeased with the product? Yes. But it doesn't matter that you can find info on random review sites. If you can't find it on a dev's/pub's official product page/store product listing/product description, then you have a case for their failure to officially disclose these technical issues for the pc that they were well aware of before releasing the game.

This information I speak of is not openly provided by the deveoplers/publishers because it puts their product in a bad light. The most useful information is generated by reviewers and other customers who bought the game so that we can benefit from it at their expense. But again, this is asking for people to hold off on their purchase to be able to read these reviews and that just isn't going to happen.

Well the thing as many have enjoyed the game. It is the exact same copy as the console version and many have enjoyed that version. The thing is there are mods out there that will enhance the experience, so of course it would be used. When you say the game is unoptimized what exactly do you mean? The requirements are pretty low for the game. Also, often there are review sites that post reviews day of release.
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