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[DSO] Tom Clancy’s The Division – Snowdrop Engine – GDC 2014 Trailer - Page 7

post #61 of 69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

What's "next-gen" that hasn't been done or shown before exactly? You gotta give examples man or you're just talking out the rear.

Plus you have to keep in mind that although most (if not all) the effects in The Division, if taken separately, are not THAT super impressive. However, when you have a game like this that uses ALL these effects like physics based destruction, indirect lighting, particle physics, advanced lightening, etc is when it becomes next-gen. I mean, the video in the OP...what game has come out or will come out (that we know of) that looks this good on all levels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertdt View Post


When I think of next-gen, I think about a qualitative leap in quality that introduces things I haven't seen before ... the incremental improvements in lighting, texture resolution, and particle effects present in the GAMEPLAY video are not that.

A game that is a good example of this to me is Crysis. When I first saw it, I saw stuff I had never seen before put together in a new way. Some of the scenes in the OP video give a similar impression. But the engine video is mostly irrelevant until they actually have a game running on the hardware in real time that is released to the public and isn't a marketing ploy like the "vertical slice" of gameplay of Watch Dogs they likely showed at E3.

I see where both of you are coming from and you're both right, to mark a generation you'd expect a quite big leap in quality, but this leap in quality is not only determined by the hardware but the developers aswell if they can be bothered to put in the resources to make a truly next generation game.
What I wanted to see from a new console generation:

Ground breaking physics
Generation Defining Visuals
Smarter and more advanced sophisticated A.I
Seamless Multiplayer
No loading screens besides the initial start up, they attempted this in a few last gen games, Uncharted 2 and 3, Dead Space 2 and 3 most notably.
Advancement in Animation techniques, procedural animations, so on and so fourth.

The consoles Sony and Microsoft released are far from ground breaking, the Xbox One is atrociously using DDR3 tech for it's GPU leaving it rendering at mostly 720p due to its lack of bandwith, I bet the GPU is starved for bandwith, it may be weaker than the PS4's but it should not be rendering at 720p imo, with consoles you bascially have one shot at the hardware and if you mess up its going to live with it for the rest of it's lifetime, and because Microsoft decided to throw in the Kinect they chose weaker hardware to keep the price down, otherwise for that initial price tag they possibly could of used beefier hardware than the PS4 if they wanted too, maybe a 7870XT based GPU, with 1536 cores, 384 more cores than the PS4's cut down 7850, but the next thing that is lacking in the consoles is their tablet CPUs...

If the developers dont put in the resources were not going to get what we want out of a new generation or upto our own personal standards but there's always time, looking at the leap between the PS2 era titles, the first and the last GTA, San Andreas, and then jumping to GTA 4 to 5 felt like a significant leap in visuals and physics, I remember playing GTA 4 and my jaw dropping by crashing into a lamp post and flinging myself from a car down the road, GTA 4's realism helped to add to the physics system utilized in the game, but It did not have much if any complex destruction physics etc, but then again GTA 4 is looked as one of the worst GTAs from a gameplay perspective but also one of the best from a technical perspective, San Andreas added a ton of gameplay features and GTA 4 just seemed to have ignored them.
Uncharted 1 to 3's visual leap is quite impressive aswell as a few other titles.

Bare in mind this is taking only consoles as an example, PC is a whole different ball game with our increasingly powerful hardware.

Overtime the visuals will get better aswell as how the developers make their games, at the moment where The Division stands in its current state I would class it as Next Gen, you've got a combination of almost everything on the graphics level, from the particles to the lighting and textures, and how the characters interact with the Physical space in the game world aswell as animations, to me it is certainly the best looking next gen title I have seen to date but the game could always go through a downgrade.

FF15's gameplay however looks absolutely insane, if the game worlds are as big as they are perceived to be this could certainly be one of the most impressive next gen titles in my book.

Well, atleast the size of ram is decent.
Edited by TopicClocker - 3/21/14 at 1:37pm
post #62 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

Well I guess this is just one of those "opinion" type things then. Everything I see of this game and engine leaves me speechless.

To me there is actually a large variation between the gameplay video and the OP video. The OP video has a few awesome scenes (the city footage in the beginning, the forest, the table)... however, I have seen way, way too many times that these types of engine demonstrations with everything cranked up and running on multiple high-end GPUs or something like that aren't relevant ... only the released product matters. When I look at the gameplay video, I only see, like I said, incremental improvements in all areas, and that to me just is not what I would consider a leap in quality that I associate with next-gen. It may be next-gen definitionally, because it's coming out on the next-gen consoles only, but that doesn't mean anything in terms of whether its gameplay or visuals are next-gen.

And additionally, they are (as is so tediously characteristic of large publishers), doing a substantial amount of copying or creating derivative gameplay features, borrowing from DICE. Not exactly a leader in innovation and quality these days:


Compare:

- Frostbite with Snowdrop

- Playing with an overhead map view on your tablet device. This was introduced in Battlefield 4

- Arcade like orange point notifications for every action in the game, also characteristic of
Battlefield 4

And let's face it, third person duck-and-cover post-apocalyptic shooters aren't exactly revolutionary, or even new.


(The derivative stuff is also typical of large corporations. Take no risks, true innovation is not as important as reliable profit generation. Copy what has worked in the past. This I think is also part of why games are so stagnant in most areas ... it's cheaper and safer to just incrementally change what is already proven to work than to create something new.)


In terms of the gameplay video, I mostly see a derivative game with a few bells and whistles (like the hologram map) that are new, and some incremental graphical and physics upgrades, and several features blatantly and uncreatively borrowed from another game (Battlefield 4) ... and for some reason several of you are just eating it up, and though I understand the desire to be excited about new games, I don't really see what about this game is so exciting. Nor have I seen anyone articulate what would make you "speechless," about the game (as you suggested I should provide examples, perhaps you will do the same).
Edited by Robertdt - 3/21/14 at 3:26pm
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post #63 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

Ehhh...from what they've said so far it would appear that it's really whatever you want it to be. You can play single player, co-op, co-op online with other people, solo online, etc...like I said, don't know anything specific so far but it would appear that you can play it with whom and however you want too.

Yeah, just have seen zero mention or demonstration that there will be a single player campaign.
 
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post #64 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by deafboy View Post

Yeah, just have seen zero mention or demonstration that there will be a single player campaign.

I could be wrong but I believe the E3 demo had them saying something about it. Either way, I doubt there WOULDN'T be single player.
post #65 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertdt View Post

To me there is actually a large variation between the gameplay video and the OP video. Nor have I seen anyone articulate what would make you "speechless," about the game (as you suggested I should provide examples, perhaps you will do the same).

Man...opinions bro. I didn't get what the big deal was with Bioshock Infinite but that game had people flipping their sh!!!!!t! Talking about how great the characters and setting and game play (lol) was, etc...I didn't agree. I didn't see it AT ALL.

So you're just me in this situation. I get your points but for me, especially with the games I like, this looks stellar.

Plus the whole "ripping BF4 off" shouldn't come into play. If you want to play that game then ANY game can be made to look like it's copying something else. Doesn't mean they stole ideas or anything...like with the orange marker. You realize the color orange is highly visible and is just a smart color to use for map locations, right? BF4 wasn't the first to use it and The Division won't be the last.

So yeah...opinions...just like with me and Infinite you can rant and rave all day but in the end I like what I see on every front. I think the graphics look amazing and definitely a step above the rest. I think the gun play and game play looks good based on what I've seen.

You think the opposite. What are we to do?
post #66 of 69
Well, Ubisoft will enjoy 59.99 (+ DLC later) of your dollars and you will hopefully enjoy the game and I'll read my Kindle while awaiting a few crowd-funded games.
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post #67 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

I could be wrong but I believe the E3 demo had them saying something about it. Either way, I doubt there WOULDN'T be single player.

That's what I had hoped about Titanfall, but nope. So that kind of has me worried about this.
 
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post #68 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidVageta View Post

Man...opinions bro. I didn't get what the big deal was with Bioshock Infinite but that game had people flipping their sh!!!!!t! Talking about how great the characters and setting and game play (lol) was, etc...I didn't agree. I didn't see it AT ALL.

So you're just me in this situation. I get your points but for me, especially with the games I like, this looks stellar.

Plus the whole "ripping BF4 off" shouldn't come into play. If you want to play that game then ANY game can be made to look like it's copying something else. Doesn't mean they stole ideas or anything...like with the orange marker. You realize the color orange is highly visible and is just a smart color to use for map locations, right? BF4 wasn't the first to use it and The Division won't be the last.

So yeah...opinions...just like with me and Infinite you can rant and rave all day but in the end I like what I see on every front. I think the graphics look amazing and definitely a step above the rest. I think the gun play and game play looks good based on what I've seen.

You think the opposite. What are we to do?

When thinking the opposite, the best thing to do is to just respect each other's opinions and agree to disagree.
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post #69 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fickle Pickle View Post

When thinking the opposite, the best thing to do is to just respect each other's opinions and agree to disagree.

Of course! thumb.gif
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