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post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

I do understand the mistake in the liver that causes humans to die from EG but it is toxic to non mammals including fish and I believe algae. I do know that it is not the most effective at killing algae but unfortunately many of the "effective things" have other issues which is why I mentioned the use of PHN.

Thanks for that info... I am guessing you are correct about the inhibiting of the enzymes from being broken down. As long as you can stop the liver from doing what it does then I suppose it wouldn't kill a human unless it was in a very high dose...

As I mentioned also though... I have NEVER EVER seen algae in any of my loops including those with NO additives... I have stopped using Copper Sulfate because I use mostly HWLabs radiators and I believe they have TIN from the welds exposed to the water. I also use a Koolance GPU block and it unfortunately only comes in nickel frown.gif

Well EG also has quite a few other benefits, it creates an ionic buffer which inhibits corrosion, is a natural lubricant, and acts as an antifreeze if you use a chiller. Even if you don't go below freezing in a chiller the coldplates can frost over, and the ice can act as an insulator. It's a win win win additive, unless of course you ingest it and die. Then it's not so much of a win. XD



You also said you tear down your rigs every few months to flush/clean. Many people, including me, like to spend an extra buck for quality coolant so they only have to flush/clean every year or two so that's definitely a plus. biggrin.gif
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post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

I do understand the mistake in the liver that causes humans to die from EG but it is toxic to non mammals including fish and I believe algae. I do know that it is not the most effective at killing algae but unfortunately many of the "effective things" have other issues which is why I mentioned the use of PHN.

Thanks for that info... I am guessing you are correct about the inhibiting of the enzymes from being broken down. As long as you can stop the liver from doing what it does then I suppose it wouldn't kill a human unless it was in a very high dose...

As I mentioned also though... I have NEVER EVER seen algae in any of my loops including those with NO additives... I have stopped using Copper Sulfate because I use mostly HWLabs radiators and I believe they have TIN from the welds exposed to the water. I also use a Koolance GPU block and it unfortunately only comes in nickel frown.gif

Well EG also has quite a few other benefits, it creates an ionic buffer which inhibits corrosion, is a natural lubricant, and acts as an antifreeze if you use a chiller. Even if you don't go below freezing in a chiller the coldplates can frost over, and the ice can act as an insulator. It's a win win win additive, unless of course you ingest it and die. Then it's not so much of a win. XD



You also said you tear down your rigs every few months to flush/clean. Many people, including me, like to spend an extra buck for quality coolant so they only have to flush/clean every year or two so that's definitely a plus. biggrin.gif

Oh, I totally agree... I just don't think you absolutely must spend a lot of money to do so. My wifes rig and my brothers rig are built by me and water-cooled... they only get flushed well... never besides the first 3-4 flushes I did in the first few days...

Both are using Swiftech Hydrx which I honestly don't recommend to anyone who cares about what there coolant, tubes, or reservoir looks like down the road. Both systems have been running for a long time with no problems but yes it is true that on my own systems that 6 months would be a very very long time...
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post #13 of 19
There are a whole lot of ways to set up a liquid cooling loop. Some work, others are nonsense, but there is no clear cut "best" for all situations.

Decide what you are looking to get out of your loop, and then it will be a lot easier to decide how to achieve that.
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post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

There are a whole lot of ways to set up a liquid cooling loop. Some work, others are nonsense, but there is no clear cut "best" for all situations.

Decide what you are looking to get out of your loop, and then it will be a lot easier to decide how to achieve that.

X1 for normal systems, XT-1 for below ambient systems, Benzyl chloride (Aka PT NUKE PHN) if you're cheap, CuSo4 (copper sulphate) if you're cheap and only have copper in your loop.

Nothing wrong with being cheap, that's why I love my CoolerMaster R4s. biggrin.gif
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post #15 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero4549 View Post

There are a whole lot of ways to set up a liquid cooling loop. Some work, others are nonsense, but there is no clear cut "best" for all situations.

Decide what you are looking to get out of your loop, and then it will be a lot easier to decide how to achieve that.

X1 for normal systems, XT-1 for below ambient systems, Benzyl chloride (Aka PT NUKE PHN) if you're cheap, CuSo4 (copper sulphate) if you're cheap and only have copper in your loop.

Nothing wrong with being cheap, that's why I love my CoolerMaster R4s. biggrin.gif

My go to cheapie is the CM BladeMaster LOL but I have ton of the R4s too... I only grabbed the blademasters cus of the PWM... The R4s look so much better though... at least I think

I also agree on the going cheap...

Don't for a second think that cheap is a bad thing or bad idea... I do think that the XT-1 is for more than just below ambient though... if your mixing metals like aluminum, nickel, and copper I just have more trust in something that contains EG... and I may be wrong but I don't really think XT-1 was made for sub-zero cooling because you might need a fairly high % of EG... But I may be wrong on that... do you know if there is something in X1 that would def perform as well as the XT-1 for stopping issues that multiple metal loops can cause?
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post #16 of 19
Well, if we're talking fans, time for my shameless panaflo plug (I'm in no was actually affiliated with panasonic)

Inexpensive for the type of fan, very pleasing sound signature, will last forever, and push a ton of air through just about anything. Rather ugly though.
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post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

My go to cheapie is the CM BladeMaster LOL but I have ton of the R4s too... I only grabbed the blademasters cus of the PWM... The R4s look so much better though... at least I think

I also agree on the going cheap...

Don't for a second think that cheap is a bad thing or bad idea... I do think that the XT-1 is for more than just below ambient though... if your mixing metals like aluminum, nickel, and copper I just have more trust in something that contains EG... and I may be wrong but I don't really think XT-1 was made for sub-zero cooling because you might need a fairly high % of EG... But I may be wrong on that... do you know if there is something in X1 that would def perform as well as the XT-1 for stopping issues that multiple metal loops can cause?

Well X1 has corrosion inhibitors but I wouldn't trust it with aluminum personally, though I did see someone running a cannibalized corsair CLC with X1, which has an aluminum rad and copper waterblock and that seemed to work okay. As the sub zero, I said sub ambient not subzero. Even with sub ambient the coldplate from the TEC or whatever you're using to chill can dip around freezing even if the loop itself doesn't, which can cause the coolant to frost over it. Ice will insulate the chiller and potentially even clog your loop.

As far as sub zero goes, there's this:
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post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayhem View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by McFridgeGuy View Post

Hello all,

It's been a while since I've built a PC, but I'm straying away from Macs. I'm slowly getting the parts for my build, so far it's a Corsair 250D, Asus Impact, Bitspower motherboard waterblock. Planning on getting the Koolance RP 1250. Graphics card, undecided.

My question is what do most manufacturers recommend for a coolant? I'm thinking about using a blend of propylene glycol.

Don't use Propylene Glycol... You really need to have a very good reason to use that over Ethylene Glycol. Before you BLINDLY buy something like a silver kill coil please check out this link which is simply me going to google typing in the word kill coil and clicking on images... https://www.google.com/search?q=kill+coil&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=y5kqU4bfDsSwyQGz3oHoCw&sqi=2&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAw&biw=1829&bih=961

What happens in those images doesn't happen to everyone so there will be lots of lucky people on the forum that say I used a kill coil and never had those issues and no algae...

Thing is I don't use a kill coil (after the havock it wrecked on my system) and I have also NEVER had algae... Some systems I use NO additive and flush every 6 months using distilled water. Some systems that have mixed metals of any kind (which is hard to avoid these days because of all the nickel plating) I will run ethylene glycol but only a tiny tiny amount.

Ethylene Glycol will kill algae, lubricate your pump, and inhibit corrosion. Don't use Propylene Glycol because it is very thick and has poor cooling properties.

Silver kill coil might kill algae (as a lack of algae is not proof that it was the reason algae never showed up) where as Propylene Glycol is proven to kill algae as a side effect of it high toxicity. Silver kill coil also WILL react to the copper and nickel in your loop... in fact I believe it needs to react to be highly effective as if it just stays unchanged I don't think it does much.

One thing you should be aware of. Although Ethylene and Propylene Glycol are supposed to be safe with Acrylic I have seen some minor cosmetic issues with acrylic reservoirs when EG is used in a high concentration for a long period of time. So use very little... or if your not worried about your reservoir looking perfect then who cares... also you have the option of running glass reservoirs like what Aquacomputer sells...

PT Nuke is surely a better option than a silver kill coil. It Copper Sulfate which is perfectly fine to use with copper where as silver can react to copper and nickel.

If you run nickel in your system I don't recommend PTNuke Cu instead I would use PTNuke PHN (clear stuff) or the Ethylene Glycol...

To get Ethylene Glycol you can buy Feser Base which is perfectly clear, Swiftech Hydrx concentrate which only comes in a wretched green and has other non soluble additives (that inhibit corrosion) and react with UV light), or Mayhem's XT-1 Concentrate.

In my opinion EG is the clear winner if you use a glass reservoir or do not care about some cosmetic issues over time with some reservoirs (not all Acrylic reservoirs have this issue).

Second to EG I would say is PHN since it is compatible with EVERYTHING but it doesn't stop corrosion and 3rd would be Copper Sulfate which also does not stop corrosion and might even make corrosion more likely with nickel, aluminum and the TIN in the solder of some radiators.


Also the reason manufacturers use Propylene Glycol over Ethylene Glycol is because it has a very low toxicity and is even a food additive which makes it easy to ship it wherever they want. The reason that often times you won't see Ethylene Glycol in premixes is the same reason... These companies will have major shipping and sales restrictions when you look at a global level. I would not at all doubt if that is why Mayhems went through the trouble of finding a way to make their XT-1 concentrate non toxic even though it uses Ethylene Glycol.

Anyways... Feser Base, Mayhem's XT-1 Concentrate (not pre-mix), and Swiftech Hydrx Concentrate (not pre-mix)

We applaud your knowledge on this subject and the way you put you information forward. Well done.

Thanks

AND

I want to make one correction

I did say "where as Propylene Glycol is proven to kill algae "

I meant to say Ethylene Glycol... Propylene Glycol has such a low toxicity that it is used in food additives.

Also as far as the thickness thing...

It should be noted that Propylene Glycol is the primary ingredient in many of the thickest personal lubricants... Yes it is that thick!


ALSO A QUESTIONS TO MAYHEM

Am I correct about my assumptions as to why companies shy away from Ethylene Glycol and why you went through the effort of making Ethylene Glycol non toxic in your XT-1 concentrate? Also not that I really care because I never see algae but do you know if by making the EG non toxic did it also reduce its ability to kill algae? If so did you use other algaecides?

I am just wondering as regardless of those answers I think your XT-1 is second to none if you want color in your water... and tied for first with Feser Base if you don't want color but lest be honest Feser Base isn't a high tech coolant that took any effort it just an easy way to buy a clear additive that contains nothing but water and EG. I would be open minded as to why XT-1 might be better than using pure EG/Water mix with no other additives at all...

Thanks

It is obvious that of all the coolant companies you guys put the most effort in balancing the marketing with the science where as the other companies seem to just go for the marketing... whatever gets them the best sounding label instead of the best performing coolant. Like having the ability to say NON Toxic by using PG instead of EG to me that is a bogus thing to do.

Forgive me for late replay im on my hols.

You are correct about EG being a problem shipping worldwide. We wouldn't use until we found that it could be safe near kids as our primary responsibility is safety followed by efficiency. We are breaking our own rules on our new cleaning kit though. The patented additive we use in our EG mix though doesn't affect its ability in any way as a biocide or its efficiency. As for is it better than any other EG mix well thats not for us to say as were not a company who relies on hype or bull marketing we leave that to the others wink.gif.. Check our bottles out there is nothing on them to make them stand out.
post #19 of 19
I share similar success with just distilled water.

Pulled everything apart after a year of continuous running with little signs of anything abnormal.
I was careful to use copper and copper-nickle metals in the system. I know these work and play well with each other galvanic wise.

I am currently using metallic silver, so far I haven't had any bad results.
I had not used it long enough ( 3-mos ), recently had things apart and did not see any evidence of problems.

I have seen evidence of problems, I believed them to be caused by some vendors selling metals plated with silver. The silver does have a cathodic reaction, if the plating is light enough it would disappear and expose whatever base metal was plated.

** In my opinion a water cooled system is an ongoing experiment. You develop a hypothesis and then attempt to disprove it. Rinse, wash, repeat...failure is success!

Old Geek guidelines:

Start with good ol' H2O. Can't go wrong with that, $1.29/gal at safeway last time I bought some.
Determine your cooling system goal. Cooler, quieter, because you can...whatever.
Design to that goal.
Build the system, make sure it does what you want.
Then worry about the additives.
If you want pretty colors, use colored plumbing don't add dyes and stuff to the coolant.
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