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[WCCF]Intel Haswell Refresh – Unlocked Design and Improved TIM - Page 5

post #41 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Proof or it didn't happen.

Golden chips excluded of course.

Edit:
Here is what I think people are used to seeing with Haswell 4770Ks.

4.5GHz, 240mm Self Contained Corsair H100i
temps5.jpg

power-load_0.png

Source: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Haswell-Review-Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Performance-and-Architecture/Integrated-Voltag


If limited myself to 90c, I achieve approximately 5073 MHz on my 3770K. Of course no point at redlining it 24/7. People here would be better off getting a standard 4770K and delidding. Assuming the 4790K is actually soldered.

There are some tests that you can run that draw way more power than other stuff. We're talking like 1.5x+ power draw, even more than that, while both tests fully load the CPU. Enough to run one test, get 55c max, run another test, get 95c max.

He insisted on prime 27.9 and thorough testing - and the chip was hardly golden, given that he was using 1.45v bios (~1.47v load) for 4.6ghz. It was at least a hundred or two below average

^With a h110 push/pull + delid.

I think all of that information is correct - go ask him. His name is Belial and he has a thread for his z87 build.

Average Haswell chip will do ~4.5@1.3. ~4.7 a bit over 1.4. That amounts to about 200w power draw on i7 under 100% cpu load with x264, less on i5.

I would be able to use 1.3v on my 4770k, on air, with a max around 65c if i delidded. As it stands now, temps break into the 80's with sustained load like this:

All of this info is as factually correct as possible: I've read by now at least 15'000 or so posts relating to Haswell on OCN and done quite a bit of experimentation in the last 9 months
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/19/14 at 6:29pm
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post #42 of 125
I really doubt it's going to be solder. Probably a meh paste but between that and tightening the voltage threshold it should clock much better but end up reaching the thermal limit far before something like Sandy.
Edited by pengs - 3/19/14 at 7:01pm
post #43 of 125
^Average Haswell i5 does about 4.5@1.3v at about 70-75c peaks on high end air/equivalents



^1.265vcore 4.5, air, bad thermal interface, no delid.

Haswell has some issues but a surprising amount of them are PEBKAC in nature and spread like wildfire through forums and even some high profile tech sites~
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/19/14 at 7:01pm
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post #44 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

^Average Haswell i5 does about 4.5@1.3v at about 70-75c peaks on high end air/equivalents



^1.265vcore 4.5, air, bad thermal interface, no delid.

Haswell has some issues but a surprising amount of them are PEBKAC in nature and spread like wildfire through forums and even some high profile tech sites~

Throw HT and AVX on that and give it standard cooling.
post #45 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by pengs View Post

Throw HT and AVX on that and give it standard cooling.

x264 uses avx2 - It's one of the more popular programs to benefit from it, getting about a ~5% speedup. That contributes to 4770k being significantly faster (think >15%) than 3770k clock for clock when running it. It still gets the temperatures that i showed. Everything that's not a synthetic that runs faster on Haswell than every other architecture seems to run well enough, actually~

If you're suggesting worst case synthetic tests, i'd also call that a PEBKAC issue for overclockers:

500x1000px-LL-366c4dd8_z.png

250gflops makes them a little hot indeed - good thing if real world programs used avx2 in those ways, Haswell would be 2x as fast as 3770k and 9590 rolleyes.gif
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/19/14 at 7:15pm
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post #46 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Proof or it didn't happen.

Golden chips excluded of course.

Edit:
Here is what I think people are used to seeing with Haswell 4770Ks.

4.5GHz, 240mm Self Contained Corsair H100i
temps5.jpg

power-load_0.png

Source: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Haswell-Review-Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Performance-and-Architecture/Integrated-Voltag


If limited myself to 90c, I achieve approximately 5073 MHz on my 3770K. Of course no point at redlining it 24/7. People here would be better off getting a standard 4770K and delidding. Assuming the 4790K is actually soldered.

There are some tests that you can run that draw way more power than other stuff. We're talking like 1.5x+ power draw, even more than that, while both tests fully load the CPU. Enough to run one test, get 55c max, run another test, get 95c max.

He insisted on prime 27.9 and thorough testing - and the chip was hardly golden, given that he was using 1.45v bios (~1.47v load) for 4.6ghz. It was at least a hundred or two below average

^With a h110 push/pull + delid.

I think all of that information is correct - go ask him. His name is Belial and he has a thread for his z87 build.

Average Haswell chip will do ~4.5@1.3. ~4.7 a bit over 1.4. That amounts to about 200w power draw on i7 under 100% cpu load with x264, less on i5.

I would be able to use 1.3v on my 4770k, on air, with a max around 65c if i delidded. As it stands now, temps break into the 80's with sustained load like this:

All of this info is as factually correct as possible: I've read by now at least 15'000 or so posts relating to Haswell on OCN and done quite a bit of experimentation in the last 9 months

Good job proving you get lower temperatures with a delid. I already said that.

None of which changes anything I have said or proof that your friend is adequately cooling with an AIO.
Quote:
But i7 @1.4v has ~200w power draw at max cpu load (aside from crazy synthetics that ivy can't run nearly as fast as haswell)

^You can cool that on air with delid. Friend of mine runs avx1 prime on 1.47v on an AIO.

Which was a response (the context of what I said) to what I said: you won't be running 5000 MHz on these chips even if they are soldered. They generate too much heat with matching voltage requirements. You can cool it passively if you want. That doesn't mean you should. 1.47v on an AIO? More than likely 90c+ at load.

People here just argue for the sake of arguing on this forum. Even soldering the IHS doesn't fix high temps with the Haswell. The VRM on-die was just adding to an already hot architecture. Arguing against that is silly.
Edited by RagingCain - 3/19/14 at 7:23pm
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post #47 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Good job proving you get lower temperatures with a delid. I already said that.

None of which changes anything I have said or proof that your friend is getting:
Which is the context of what I said, you won't be running 5000 MHz on these chips even if they are soldered. They generate too much heat with matching voltage requirements. You can cool it passively if you want. That doesn't mean you should. 1.47v on an AIO? More than likely 90c+

People here just argue for the sake of arguing on this forum. Even solder the IHS doesn't fix high temps with the Haswell. The VRM on-die was just adding to an already hot architecture. Arguing against that is silly.

This is the same Belial that delidded his 3770k and ran prime 24h's at 1.5v 5ghz without hitting 90.

Haswell can hit 5.0, there's some chips that can do it at 1.3v even. The majority of them not so much - you'll probably top out at 4.5-4.8ghz if you limit yourself to 1.4v.

I see how my posts look now, tbh i was referring to pentium OC at first (way less heat) and then i replied to something that got edited out, so it looks a bit weird now tongue.gif

My points stand though. Lots of exaggerated issues
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/19/14 at 7:25pm
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post #48 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post

Good job proving you get lower temperatures with a delid. I already said that.

None of which changes anything I have said or proof that your friend is getting:
Which is the context of what I said, you won't be running 5000 MHz on these chips even if they are soldered. They generate too much heat with matching voltage requirements. You can cool it passively if you want. That doesn't mean you should. 1.47v on an AIO? More than likely 90c+

People here just argue for the sake of arguing on this forum. Even solder the IHS doesn't fix high temps with the Haswell. The VRM on-die was just adding to an already hot architecture. Arguing against that is silly.

This is the same Belial that delidded his 3770k and ran prime 24h's at 1.5v 5ghz without hitting 90.

Haswell can hit 5.0, there's some chips that can do it at 1.3v even. The majority of them not so much - you'll probably top out at 4.5-4.8ghz if you limit yourself to 1.4v.

I see how my posts look now, tbh i was referring to pentium OC at first (way less heat) and then i replied to something that got edited out, so it looks a bit weird now tongue.gif

My points stand though. Lots of exaggerated issues

There is no way he is running 1.5v with Small FFTs (maybe, EXTREMELY unlikely still though, with blend) test without hitting 90c without exotic cooling or freezing ambient.

Please visit here for more information on 3770K: http://www.overclock.net/t/1247869/official-the-ivy-bridge-stable-suicide-club-guides-voltages-temps-bios-templates-inc-spreadsheet/0_50

At the end of the day Haswell and Ivy Bridge are hot, even after all the tricks of the trade. That's fact. A soldered IHS won't fix that. Period.
Edited by RagingCain - 3/19/14 at 7:34pm
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post #49 of 125
Will these cost more than previous?
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post #50 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

..

Your still without HT and the, be it, small 10-15mV increase needed. Not huge but add 10* on top of that 70* and above room temperature heat, something other than water cooling and your creeping into the high 80's.
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