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A counter point to AMD not being good for mid-high end - Page 18

post #171 of 355
You intel fans got your "low-end" "mid-range" and "high-end" definitions all mixed up. It's quite obvious you are not in touch with reality if you think an i5-xxxxxK or i7-xxxxxK is mid-range. Most consumers buy throw-away computers from Walmart that even the whole thing monitor included costs less than just an i7. Most gamers, that means people who play games, use integrated graphics. Mid-range gamers (the lions share of the people in the Steam survey) are happy to have a dedicated card at all, and the maybe can pair it with an i3 or an AMD quad, though apparently there are still a lot of people rocking dual cores just fine.A small percentage of gamers actually have an i5xxxxK, and only a fraction of a percentage are running i7s or FX-8cores, and that's they way it should be because they are high end products that defy the justification of purchase from an average user. Then you got these i7 extreme editions, and these are but such a tiny piece of the market share for gamers that they are practically irrelevant. Now if you want to talk business computers, the majority of office computers are sporting pentiums, celerons, and A4's at best if they are new. Workstations don't play around and use Xeons and actual workstation GPUs. You are delusional because you are looking at Overclock.net rigs, and thinking that this is a sample of the real use population. But by all means, on Overclock.net please do bring a nuke to a knife fight smile.gif
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post #172 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post

You intel fans got your "low-end" "mid-range" and "high-end" definitions all mixed up. It's quite obvious you are not in touch with reality if you think an i5-xxxxxK or i7-xxxxxK is mid-range. Most consumers buy throw-away computers from Walmart that even the whole thing monitor included costs less than just an i7. Most gamers, that means people who play games, use integrated graphics. Mid-range gamers (the lions share of the people in the Steam survey) are happy to have a dedicated card at all, and the maybe can pair it with an i3 or an AMD quad, though apparently there are still a lot of people rocking dual cores just fine.A small percentage of gamers actually have an i5xxxxK, and only a fraction of a percentage are running i7s or FX-8cores, and that's they way it should be because they are high end products that defy the justification of purchase from an average user. Then you got these i7 extreme editions, and these are but such a tiny piece of the market share for gamers that they are practically irrelevant. Now if you want to talk business computers, the majority of office computers are sporting pentiums, celerons, and A4's at best if they are new. Workstations don't play around and use Xeons and actual workstation GPUs.

Just because you cannot afford a Core i7 doesn't mean that your Athlon 760K is not low-end. Look, it's great if you're happy with your 760K; there's no need to justify your purchase when it is irrelevant to the point of this thread. I do have a i7 and consider it midrange, because there are 6-core Extreme Edition i7s out there for that segment of the market.

Your argument about comparing to "most consumers" is also deeply flawed. By your logic, you would consider a 20 year old used car with 200,000 miles on it a "high end" car because most of the world's population don't have cars and use bicycles or walk.
Quote:
You are delusional because you are looking at Overclock.net rigs, and thinking that this is a sample of the real use population. But by all means, on Overclock.net please do bring a nuke to a knife fight smile.gif

If that's what you think, you should probably not be on Overclock.net in the first place.
Edited by 996gt2 - 3/24/14 at 12:51pm
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post #173 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post

You intel fans got your "low-end" "mid-range" and "high-end" definitions all mixed up.

Well then, maybe you should do a more direct classification to enlightened them? How low or high would you place each processor currently on the market? How would you decide what goes where? why?

Right now you're just uttering theories here and there. This isn't helping. You might've just as well said "mine are bigger than yours" and be done with it. tongue.gif
Edited by PsyM4n - 3/24/14 at 12:56pm
post #174 of 355
Lokee here! An trolltel thread in the AMD forum! rolleyes.gif

I'm in the situation that to balance this system out it will cost almost as much in video cards as for the rest of the system total. It is very GPU bound.
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post #175 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

Just because you cannot afford a Core i7 doesn't mean that your Athlon 760K is not low-end. Look, it's great if you're happy with your 760K; there's no need to justify your purchase when it is irrelevant to the point of this thread. I do have a i7 and consider it midrange, because there are 6-core Extreme Edition i7s out there for that segment of the market.

Your argument about comparing to "most consumers" is also deeply flawed. By your logic, you would consider a 20 year old used car with 200,000 miles on it a "high end" car because most of the world's population don't have cars and use bicycles or walk.
If that's what you think, you should probably not be on Overclock.net in the first place.

I'm not talking about used anything. You obviously don't get out very much and haven't worked many places. Tell the guy with an E-Series APU or Celeron that my 760K is low-end tongue.gif I'm here on OCN obviously to learn and teach overclocking. Unfortunately sometimes I have to lay reason to the zealots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

Well then, maybe you should do a more direct classification to enlightened them? How low or high would you place each processor currently on the market? How would you decide what goes where? why?

Right now you're just uttering theories here and there. This isn't helping. You might've just as well said "mine are bigger than yours" and be done with it. tongue.gif

You decide what you buy. You can't control what other consumers buy. It's very simple. Don't try and force it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miklkit View Post

Lokee here! An trolltel thread in the AMD forum! rolleyes.gif

I'm in the situation that to balance this system out it will cost almost as much in video cards as for the rest of the system total. It is very GPU bound.

It's nothing new. And I don't blame them for liking what they have. If you can own a Ferrari, it's ok to cruise around town. But if you stop at my gas station and say something smart-ass about my Nissan...
Edited by damric - 3/24/14 at 1:22pm
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post #176 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post

I'm not talking about used anything. You obviously don't get out very much and haven't worked many places. Tell the guy with an E-Series APU or Atom that my 760K is low-end tongue.gif I'm here on OCN obviously to learn and teach overclocking. Unfortunately sometimes I have to lay reason to the zealots.
You decide what you buy. You can't control what other consumers buy. It's very simple. Don't try and force it.
It's nothing new. And I don't blame them for liking what they have. If you can own a Ferrari, it's ok to cruise around town. But if you stop at my gas station and say something smart-ass about my Nissan...

I'l speak up if people claim their nissans to be better or just as good*

*as long as you are on 30mph road

I don't know anything about cars, so best analogy i can do
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post #177 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I'l speak up if people claim their nissans to be better or just as good*

*as long as you are on 30mph road

I don't know anything about cars, so best analogy i can do

I'll tell you that my Z is high end because most people drive Corrollas. Your Ferrari is just freakish smile.gif
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post #178 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by damric View Post

You intel fans got your "low-end" "mid-range" and "high-end" definitions all mixed up. It's quite obvious you are not in touch with reality if you think an i5-xxxxxK or i7-xxxxxK is mid-range. Most consumers buy throw-away computers from Walmart that even the whole thing monitor included costs less than just an i7. Most gamers, that means people who play games, use integrated graphics. Mid-range gamers (the lions share of the people in the Steam survey) are happy to have a dedicated card at all, and the maybe can pair it with an i3 or an AMD quad, though apparently there are still a lot of people rocking dual cores just fine.A small percentage of gamers actually have an i5xxxxK, and only a fraction of a percentage are running i7s or FX-8cores, and that's they way it should be because they are high end products that defy the justification of purchase from an average user. Then you got these i7 extreme editions, and these are but such a tiny piece of the market share for gamers that they are practically irrelevant. Now if you want to talk business computers, the majority of office computers are sporting pentiums, celerons, and A4's at best if they are new. Workstations don't play around and use Xeons and actual workstation GPUs. You are delusional because you are looking at Overclock.net rigs, and thinking that this is a sample of the real use population. But by all means, on Overclock.net please do bring a nuke to a knife fight smile.gif


You are right. The majority of people have crappy oem computers with Celerons or Pentiums that they bought at Walmart. Even people who are buying from Dell and HP and Lenovo are buying more low end machines. Most home users aren't getting six or eight core cpu's. Or four core with hyper threading. Or an Intel unlocked K version. They don't even know they exist. Those processor are overkill for an office environment also. Enthusiasts and geeks live in another world.
post #179 of 355
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

Of course there is. AMD's pricing already says exactly that (at least for the high end market).

I know you might like to think so, but AMD is no saint. They're a company just like any other, whose main goal is to make $$$. I'm not sure if you were into building computer 10 years ago, but if you were, you would know that AMD had absolutely zero problem with charging $1000 for a high end FX-53, FX-55, etc.

Heck, even when AMD could no longer compete on performance after the introduction of Intel's Core 2 line, they still sometimes charged exorbitant prices for underperforming CPUs. Remember Quad FX? $1000 for 2 processors, plus several hundred more for the specialized dual-socket motherboard, and it still was generally slower than Intel's much, much cheaper Core 2 Quad Q6600. But the extreme power draw and lack of performance didn't stop AMD from charging a huge price on it.

So, it's clear that AMD has never been shy about putting high price tags on their CPUs when they were able to compete on performance with Intel (or even when they weren't). The fact that AMD doesn't price any of their current CPUs above ~$350 is a very obvious sign that AMD is withdrawing from the high-end market. They simply have nothing that can compete with Intel performance-wise in the high-end market. They know that nobody (save for a few diehard AMD fanboys) will pay $1000 for any of their current consumer CPUs, because they get destroyed by Intel's Ivy Bridge-E in terms of performance. So AMD has no choice but to sell them as low-end and midrange parts.

well who said AMD was a good company in the first place lol?
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post #180 of 355
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

The problem with that argument is that somebody like me could just come along and say:

"does someone here really think that if you already have 15-20 fps you really need more fps?? Are your eyes sensitive enough to perceive even a couple of milliseconds of activity?? Absolutely not. You have 15-20 fps then you don't need more. And to get that figure you can equally spend on either Intel (c2duo) or AMD (athlon II x4)"

There's a line that everybody draws in different places. Some people want to increase the performance of their systems in ways other than running more screens or turning up graphics settings closer to hyper-realism levels

the problem with your analogy is that the limit of the brain's perception is around 60fps. Anyone who gets more frames on their display is doing so needlessly. And it isn't the case that you might not be able to tell but I might be able to tell. The brain is set up this way for every human being on earth, and nobody can tell 60 FPS from 120 FPS. So your analogy talks about 15-20 FPS being good for some and not good for others, and while that may be the case, no person alive can possibly see more than 60 FPS.
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