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A counter point to AMD not being good for mid-high end - Page 30

post #291 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

it does. Thanks. Yea thats incorrect lol.
Maybe he didn't mean the period but that doesn't make the numbers right either, making it 85watt. Sounds to me like someone just fumbling along making statements further proving their endearment and reducing my need to care just that much more.
post #292 of 355
If anything I want apps to start using all cores. I'm sick and tired of single thread performance being paraded everywhere. I mean come on, it's 2014!
    
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post #293 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMI86 View Post

I have seriously enjoyed overclocking my 6300. Although I have taken it as high as 5.1 Ghz w/ 1.49 vcore, I somewhat differ from sdlvx as I get my jollies from maximizing CPU performance while attempting to improve the thermal dynamics of the CPU. I managed to fine tune my 6300 to run at 4.5Ghz undervolted to 1.36vcore with all my power saving features still enabled. Even under prime load for several hours the CPU does not break 50c. The air coming out of the back feels luke-warm at worst. Nothing compared to the heat my OC'd 7870 LE's kick out when playing Crysis 3 (talk about a space heater lol)

I can totally relate. While I love the novelty of the "5ghz" milestone, I often find myself tinkering at lower speeds to see where the stability threshold is. Sounds like you and I have similar behaving FX-6300s. Mine will run as low as ~1.175V stable@4.0ghz (it will boot at 1.1625V, same as CPU-NB VID, but I don't think it was stable). From that 4ghz baseline, it requires almost exactly 0.025V/100mhz (stable at every step) all the way up to 4.9ghz. 5.0ghz is the first step that requires just a little more than 0.025V to get to. If one were to chart the voltage requirements in this range a slanted "trough" would show up. The base of that trough would be somewhere around 4.5ghz for me, which should be doable at ~1.275-1.2875V. From 4-5ghz on this ladder, power dissipation at the chip nearly doubles under load.
Edited by mdocod - 3/28/14 at 6:44am
     
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post #294 of 355
I think "apps" have a long way to go for that as they are typically pretty lightweight things. However some "programs" do use all available cores - like archiving and video encoding, for example to name few, problem is that some loads just do not scale all that well with increased number of cores. Even if you can make them work reasonably with many cores you still tend to end up with one "master" thread which can be a choke point for the program. I believe we will not see most programs making use of all available cores before it's fully automatic and is handled somehow in a very clever way when compiling the code so that programmer does not need to do anything extra for that. And even then the migration into proper multicore support might be slow.
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post #295 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

Even if you can make them work reasonably with many cores you still tend to end up with one "master" thread which can be a choke point for the program.

Masterfully stated!

An interesting observation of this... Look at openCL accelerated workloads in many productivity apps like Photoshop. They *use* the GPU to exploit its incredible parallelism, but the performance scaling winds up coming to a halt in many implementations because of one "control" thread that chokes on a CPU core. As such, we see performance scaling on any GPU above a certain threshhold in lockstep with the per-core performance at the CPU.
     
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post #296 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdocod View Post

Masterfully stated!

An interesting observation of this... Look at openCL accelerated workloads in many productivity apps like Photoshop. They *use* the GPU to exploit its incredible parallelism, but the performance scaling winds up coming to a halt in many implementations because of one "control" thread that chokes on a CPU core. As such, we see performance scaling on any GPU above a certain threshhold in lockstep with the per-core performance at the CPU.

In that regard .. In my opinion in ARM CPU's that BIG-small implementation is sort of interesting. It's in there ofc for different reasons (power consumption) but it might be interesting to see what could be achieved within the current CPU TDP's if AMD and Intel would do one or two ubecloked cores and would leave remainder of them as "small" or lower clocked ones. In essence that's what a "turboboost" and such things are atm which can dynamically overclock highly loaded cores within TDP at the expense of others, but what if one or two cores would be specifically architecturally different to offer the most uber single core performance they can offer while the other cores would be there just for the programs that can properly take advantage of paralellism. Ofc it would need damn smart schedulers and stuff to actually work in practice probably.
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post #297 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniflex View Post

In that regard .. In my opinion in ARM CPU's that BIG-small implementation is sort of interesting. It's in there ofc for different reasons (power consumption) but it might be interesting to see what could be achieved within the current CPU TDP's if AMD and Intel would do one or two ubecloked cores and would leave remainder of them as "small" or lower clocked ones. In essence that's what a "turboboost" and such things are atm which can dynamically overclock highly loaded cores within TDP at the expense of others, but what if one or two cores would be specifically architecturally different to offer the most uber single core performance they can offer while the other cores would be there just for the programs that can properly take advantage of paralellism. Ofc it would need damn smart schedulers and stuff to actually work in practice probably.
I think some bios allow this, in AMD OCing just one module leaving the others at a lower level.
post #298 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

My total system draw is ~330W (at the wall using Kill-a-Watt) running both Prime95 and 3DMark/Heaven. Both CPU/GPU overclocked.

Assuming 90% PSU efficiency, that means actual system power draw is only 297W. A heavily overclocked GTX 670 (mine's at around 1300 MHz boost) probably pulls 180W, then you have the SSDs, motherboard, sound card, etc which would account for at least 20W.

That means my 2700K @ 5 GHz is only using around 100W. Less than a stock FX-8320 biggrin.gif

~180W total system draw under a CPU benchmark is pretty consistent with the FX-8320's 125W TDP.
51142.png
Gonna call bull on a 2700K @ 5.0Ghz pulling 100 watts. You are gonna need to prove that soundly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Durquavian View Post

Gonna call bull on a 2700K @ 5.0Ghz pulling 100 watts. You are gonna need to prove that soundly.
2700k @5ghz vs 8350@ 5ghz I did not see where he said the 2700 pulls 100watts. He said 100 watts less @5ghz than, 8350 @ 5ghz. Which is accurate or very close.



The 100W was simply an estimate based on my Kill-A-Watt reading 330W for the system when both CPU and GPU were loaded.

It is possible that my 670 is using much less than its TDP even when overclocked, but even in that scenario, the CPU wouldn't be pulling more than about 135-150W. And before you ask, yes I checked my Kill-A-Watt with other devices to make sure it was relatively accurate. So even if you assume the worst-case scenario my 2700K @ 5 GHz is still pulling similar power to a lightly overclocked FX. And let's not forget that IB and Haswell are better on power consumption compared to SB, so the gap would be even larger.

Also, my Seasonic X-750's fans don't even run during most gaming sessions, so I know the system power draw under moderate load (gaming, as opposed to benching Prime95 + 3DMark) is less than 300W.


Remember, my voltages @ 5 GHz are lower than what most others need to hit 4.5 Stable wink.gif

Old screenshot from back when I had a 470. Pay attention to the voltage.
sI5Pz.jpg
Edited by 996gt2 - 3/28/14 at 9:06am
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post #299 of 355
Thread Starter 
I think we are making the same mistake as the other thread. we are getting too bogged down by specifics, cherry picked benchmarks, and small things like hyper threading. I call that small because even though it is a nice technology, it isn't a deal maker or breaker. I think we should focus on big picture stuff. yes an Intel CPU is generally better, but for someone who wants a high end (in their opinion of high end) then AMD could be fine.
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Zen
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post #300 of 355
I wouldn't mind an 8 core with nerfed single core performance... But the problem for me is that BD/PD is inherently inefficient. It could have been a great architecture, but there were significant mistakes in its design that held it back from being a great high end platform as it could have been.
Luthien
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Luthien
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Indis
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Aragorn (RIP)
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