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A counter point to AMD not being good for mid-high end - Page 32

post #311 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonami2 View Post

ok good i find it pretty strange to be that low.. i hit 6+ at 4.8 but the 920 7 seemed strange
The 920 is a good chip mind you. But there are always so many variables. In the end it is how you feel about what you have. If you are content and love your setup, then it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks. Are they gonna buy you a new rig? Then why does their opinion mean any more than a heaping pile of dung on an Arizona highway in July. biggrin.gif
post #312 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonami2 View Post

ok good i find it pretty strange to be that low.. i hit 6+ at 4.8 but the 920 7 seemed strange

A 37W TDP, 2.2 GHz (3.2 GHz boost) i7-4702MQ laptop CPU gets 6.32 points in Cinebench R11.5 biggrin.gif

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Intel-Haswell-Processors.93189.0.html
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post #313 of 355
this is the lastest mobile chip from intel and it worth over 300$ each more like 400$
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post #314 of 355
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

How "durable" a CPU is has very little to do with the company making it...
Obviously there's no bottleneck with mining as mining doesn't need any more CPU power than running an OS needs.
Not really, at stock maybe but only because the 920 was clocked so low out of the box. And even then as a claim it's really questionable.
average fps probably yes. Also depends on the resolution.
They do not want to kill AMD, nor have they even remotely tried to be tough on AMD in recent years.
OEM relations.
E8400 was never high end
And it definitely wasn't high end in 2009 with first gen i7s already out and hexa core i7s coming in 2010.
I have two i7 860s that I bought back in 2009. They're 5 years old now. MSRP back in those days was $294.

Take your BF3/BF4 example:

in BF4 to this day those 5 year old i7s at stock perform on par with the 2500K, or in some cases a bit better.



(i7 930 = i7 860 performance wise)

To this day that i7 is only trailing a 8350 in avg frames by 1% and in minimum frames by 12%. And you know what the greatest thing about those numbers is? That 5 year old i7 has around 45% overclocking headroom while the 8350 has 20-25%...

If that's not great value I do not know what is.

Yes but this is an example of what I was talking about earlier (not saying you need to listen to me or anything). If we get down to very specific numbers, statistics, overclocking capacity, age of hardware, ect. then I think we lose sight of the big picture. AMD is here to stay for a long while. It will be around for at least the next 10 years if Intel doesn't buy it out. But U.S. Federal anti-trust laws would probably prevent that from happening anyways. That is the only way AMD would go down. AMD makes affordable products and the vast majority of people who view their computer as high end would have no problem using an FX 8350. The majority of people who view their computer as high end are not going to just buy the best of the best. They have budgets to follow as well.

I think the better way to look at this is to see that Intel makes the best of the best. That is obvious. The CPUs that hospitals use in their MRI, radiation, x-ray, and CAT scan computers, along with other computers, are going to be Intel. Pixar and Dreamworks use Intel CPUs in their animation workstations. But if you look at computers on a spectrum, from the lowest being like my dad's old Inspiron 15, and the highest being a workstation like the ones they would use at Dreamworks or Pixar, then a computer with an FX 8350 and a Radeon video card like the one I have (7870) is much closer to the quality of that workstation. This means that AMD is clearly competitive in mid-high end computing and gaming.
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post #315 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thready View Post

Yes but this is an example of what I was talking about earlier (not saying you need to listen to me or anything). If we get down to very specific numbers, statistics, overclocking capacity, age of hardware, ect. then I think we lose sight of the big picture. AMD is here to stay for a long while. It will be around for at least the next 10 years if Intel doesn't buy it out. But U.S. Federal anti-trust laws would probably prevent that from happening anyways. That is the only way AMD would go down. AMD makes affordable products and the vast majority of people who view their computer as high end would have no problem using an FX 8350. The majority of people who view their computer as high end are not going to just buy the best of the best. They have budgets to follow as well.

I think the better way to look at this is to see that Intel makes the best of the best. That is obvious. The CPUs that hospitals use in their MRI, radiation, x-ray, and CAT scan computers, along with other computers, are going to be Intel. Pixar and Dreamworks use Intel CPUs in their animation workstations. But if you look at computers on a spectrum, from the lowest being like my dad's old Inspiron 15, and the highest being a workstation like the ones they would use at Dreamworks or Pixar, then a computer with an FX 8350 and a Radeon video card like the one I have (7870) is much closer to the quality of that workstation. This means that AMD is clearly competitive in mid-high end computing and gaming.

I don't think you realize how powerful those workstations can be. Some can cost in the five figure range. The computers we are discussing in this thread are toys by comparison.
post #316 of 355
As soon as it's more than 1 "socket" ANYTHING can compete on on the high end because we can achieve the same performance with clustering, multi-socket boards,etc etc as long as the workload is parallel enough. If we can could program for it, we could strap a thousand cell phones together and make a cluster workstation that's more powerful than a "traditional" desktop workstation by a large margin. I don't think think the discussion about whether AMDs silicon can compete on the high end has anything to do with what can be done by adding parallelism.

A render "farm" attached to a workstation does not represent high end silicon performance, it represents the results of parallelism, the silicon in those machines could be high end, low end, who knows. Often it's whatever is the most cost effective balance of supporting hardware vs CPU pricing at the time.

It doesn't matter how many Intel CPUs we strap together into a super-computer, someone could always just use even more AMD CPUs to achieve the same results or better. If we include that type of stuff, then EVERYTHING we are discussing is LOW END. Every single desktop machine is low end compared to a 4000 machine cluster. I don't think that's the sort of outcome anyone is interested in for trying to classify desktop computers.
Edited by mdocod - 3/29/14 at 3:23pm
     
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post #317 of 355
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjames61 View Post

I don't think you realize how powerful those workstations can be. Some can cost in the five figure range. The computers we are discussing in this thread are toys by comparison.
you may be right. I guess I am thinking of workstations that would use 6GB of VRAM or something like that
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post #318 of 355
What happens when someone with a FX-8320 rig wants to upgrade?

They have to go Intel. AMD has nothing to replace FX on the desktop side, so it's a dead-end.

When you do that upgrade, let's see:

-New CPU
-New mobo
-New cooler


Might as well go with a proper i5/i7 CPU in the first place when building a rig with a high-end GPU.
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post #319 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

What happens when someone with a FX-8320 rig wants to upgrade?

They have to go Intel. AMD has nothing to replace FX on the desktop side, so it's a dead-end.

When you do that upgrade, let's see:

-New CPU
-New mobo
-New cooler


Might as well go with a proper i5/i7 CPU in the first place when building a rig with a high-end GPU.

Sb->Ivy new mobo
Ivy-Maxwell new mobo

Intel is the first choice for high end and they have the performance in most benchmarks vs amd. But please this is a lame excuse. And i doubt anyone wants a really old chipset with a new cpu.
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post #320 of 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by 996gt2 View Post

What happens when someone with a FX-8320 rig wants to upgrade?

They have to go Intel. AMD has nothing to replace FX on the desktop side, so it's a dead-end.

When you do that upgrade, let's see:

-New CPU
-New mobo
-New cooler


Might as well go with a proper i5/i7 CPU in the first place when building a rig with a high-end GPU.

I was able to use the same cooler. Most will fit both sockets. H110 and hyper 212 evo do.
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