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post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

First you said this:
Then you said this:
Hmmm. Make up your mind.

What I'm trying to point out to the OP is that, at the very least, you have to know the CFM ratings of all the fans to effectively set up case cooling.

Some observations about fans and cases:
Intake volume is always equal to exhaust volume. If the CFMs are different, it just means that one or more fans is not being used efficiently (as in the example I pictured). Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Cases have, on average a 2 cu ft. volume. So even a single fan operating at 50 CFM fan will change all the air in the case about 12 times per minute.
There's to much "wind" inside a case for hot air to rise, or cool air fall.
Most case heat problems can be solved by adding fans inside the case to get cooler air to the places its actually needed.

An old overclocker's (both of which I am) trick is to cut a hole in the motherboard tray and add a small fan blowing onto the bottom of the CPU socket and also ventilating the dead space under the motherboard..

Sorry if there was some misunderstanding........

Some of the things Doyll said are mentioned in this silverstone article:
http://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=en

But if the combined CFM of the intake fans is higher than the CFM of the output fans it will result in air getting pushed out of ventilated area's of the case (considering a good (logical) airflow setup).


So if you know all the CFM spec's of the fans you should still calculate the restrictions of the mesh etc (see silverstone article) to get an accurate calculation, just knowing the CFM spec's of the fans isn't enough if you really want to go that far in setting it up.

Personaly I just got extra intake fan (extra CFM in) to be sure my intake is higher than my output so the extra air that gets pushed in, gets pushed out at the ventilated area's in the back. I also taped/closed all of the other open fan slots and openings that aren't located in the back of my case
Edited by TiezZ BE - 3/20/14 at 9:21am
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post #12 of 26
dp
Edited by TiezZ BE - 3/20/14 at 9:24am
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post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

First you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Fact is a fan with an accurate rating of 60cfm will never deliver that much air in application.

Then you said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

while exhaust may actually flow more air than fan is rated for.

Hmmm. Make up your mind..
Please don't troll me by quoting out of context.

What I said was:
Quote:
Please explain how it's not true? I do not understand how your drawing of 2x intakes and 1x exhaust applies to P-Q curve.

Air flow rating (CFM) is a free air measurement... no restriction. Even if your drawing has no grills and nothing inside the case there is 1/2 the exhaust from case as intake which means the intake have restricted airflow while exhaust may actually flow more air than fan is rated for.. Not because fan is capable of more CFM. Because the front fans are pushing more air than rear fan can handle.. and that's not relevant to discussion.

Meaning is quite different than what your quote infers.

As for your drawing, it is inaccurate. It does not take into account all of the other holes in case that air is leaking out of when the intake vents have twice the area of exhaust vent.

Quote:
Posted by billbartuska
Some observations about fans and cases:
Intake volume is always equal to exhaust volume. If the CFMs are different, it just means that one or more fans is not being used efficiently (as in the example I pictured).
Cases have, on average a 2 cu ft. volume. So even a single fan operating at 50 CFM fan will change all the air in the case about 12 times per minute.
There's to much "wind" inside a case for hot air to rise, or cool air fall.
Most case heat problems can be solved by adding fans inside the case to get cooler air to the places its actually needed.
  • Indeed, regardless of fan ratings the total volume of air going in must come out.
  • Volume of case really means nothing. What is important is the volume of air the case fans move through case is greater than the volume used by CPU & GPU coolers. If it is not the case heats up.
  • Indeed, the fans moving air override "hot air rises".
  • No, adding fans inside of case can redirect the air inside of case but it also causes heated component exhaust to mix with case's cool intake air.. and we do not want that to happen.

Edited by doyll - 3/20/14 at 10:37am
post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
I mean, I dont care about this technical stuff since my build has many errors from your experts point if view. As fas as I know the fans on the sapphire tri-x r9 290 suck air from the bottom and blow it on the heatsinks which makes hot air rise upwards. This is a good think I believe because I have one 140mm exhaust fan and a 200mm exhaust in the top, which removed the hot air that rise upwards.
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post #15 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

I mean, I dont care about this technical stuff since my build has many errors from your experts point if view. As fas as I know the fans on the sapphire tri-x r9 290 suck air from the bottom and blow it on the heatsinks which makes hot air rise upwards. This is a good think I believe because I have one 140mm exhaust fan and a 200mm exhaust in the top, which removed the hot air that rise upwards.
First off, I'm no expert! X = has-been and spert = drip under pressure. biggrin.gif

Tri-X R9 290 dies exhaust hot air inside of case but the airflow created by case fans can move that air far better than "hot air rises" does. And the use of case and cooler fans means "hot air rises" does not apply.

If the heated exhaust form 290 is moved upwards it will most likely increase the temperature of air going into CPU cooler.

This is the bigest problem with today's systems. The GPU generates 2-3 times as much heat as CPU but dumps it's heated exhaust everywhere inside of case.. like the pancake CPU coolers of old.

Bottom front to top back airflow is not desirable any more. We need front to back.. or bottom to top with 90 degree orientation of motherboard like Silverstone uses.. and has the patent for which stops any other case company from building similar design.
Most GPU cooler and case designs have not evolved to remove the heated GPU exhaust from case.
post #16 of 26
Thread Starter 
But the hot air in this case rise upwards of course, thats why my case is warmer on the top and cool in the bottom, where my cpu radiator is. Basicly the fans on the tri-x suck cold air from the bottom (because cold air is falling) and cool the heat sinks and remove hot air. Thats why I thought it would help to cool the gpu by having one extra fan on the side blowing cool air on it.
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post #17 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by PachAz View Post

But the hot air in this case rise upwards of course, thats why my case is warmer on the top and cool in the bottom, where my cpu radiator is. Basicly the fans on the tri-x suck cold air from the bottom (because cold air is falling) and cool the heat sinks and remove hot air. Thats why I thought it would help to cool the gpu by having one extra fan on the side blowing cool air on it.
NO! Wrong! BAD! tongue.gif
Fans moving air easily overcome any effect the heat / expansion of air that causes it to rise has..

Your case is warmer at the top than at the bottom because that's the way fans are flowing the air. Not because heat is making it rise.

Many heating systems are mounted above the ceiling and they flow warm air into the rooms they heat .
Many cooling systems are mounted below the floor but they still supply cool air into rooms they cool.
If "hot air rises" worked as you say the heating and cooling systems would not work. rolleyes.gif

Side fan may help cool GPU.. or it may not. or it may increase CPU temp because of poor airflow. Check out second link in my sig. It might help you understand how cases cool.
Edited by doyll - 3/20/14 at 12:54pm
post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyll View Post

Please don't troll me by quoting out of context.

Volume of case really means nothing. What is important is the volume of air the case fans move through case is greater than the volume used by CPU & GPU coolers. If it is not the case heats up.

I apologize for the levity at your expense.

That's an interesting point. I never thought of it in those terms.
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post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post

[
I apologize for the levity at your expense.

That's an interesting point. I never thought of it in those terms.
Accepted. I got over it. biggrin.gif

How much more case CFM than component fan CFM is dependent on how well the component exhaust is removed from case without mixing with the cool case intake air going to components. Today's GPUs with 2x & 3x 92mm fans can easily use 100-130cfm, maybe more, under full load / fan speed. That\'s 2x good 140mm cooler fans... for a single GPU.

2x GPUs and CPU coolers can easily use as much cfm as 5x 140mm fans can supply.

My sig rig is one GTX580DCUII and i7980 with 3x 140mm intake fans. Case temps are never more than 2-3c above room temp.and CPU never above 50 or GPU above 58c.
post #20 of 26
I don't have much experience with air cooling, as I haven't use it in the last 10-12 years.
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